Pics of Your Sticks

[Marc L]

I can spray and stretch the wrapper all day, but they still seem to bunch around veins. That's partly the reason I stretch when I roll it on too.

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Dump a tub of water on it and roll is not going to penetrated deep enough. it's a time thing. Something thicker will take longer.

 

[keithjjones]

Dump a tub of water on it and roll is not going to penetrated deep enough. it's a time thing. Something thicker will take longer.

So it should take more than 24 hours of hydrating for CT shade?

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[Marc L]

So it should take more than 24 hours of hydrating for CT shade?

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I'm trying to help. You can do this only if you want.

 

[keithjjones]

I'm trying to help. You can do this only if you want.

It's an honest question, does it take more than 24 hours? Because I've done a full day.

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[keithjjones]

Dump a tub of water on it and roll is not going to penetrated deep enough. it's a time thing. Something thicker will take longer.

As a reference - same wrapper, same prep. This time there is only one wrapper so I could stretch a little more generously while rolling it on. I did a close up because the far away pictures look worse than they are. They are shiny and smooth.
My prep usually has hanging the wrapper in a shower by the stem. I spray it so it stays damp for several hours while I occasionally stretch them by hand. Then for several more hours I lay it on my rolling table fully spread out under really wet towels. Wrapper prep on average is 12 hours for me. Sometimes I've done it as little as 4. But I've done it up to 24 before. I haven't done anything over 24.

 

[BrewinHooligan]

As a reference - same wrapper, same prep. This time there is only one wrapper so I could stretch a little more generously while rolling it on. I did a close up because the far away pictures look worse than they are. They are shiny and smooth.
My prep usually has hanging the wrapper in a shower by the stem. I spray it so it stays damp for several hours while I occasionally stretch them by hand. Then for several more hours I lay it on my rolling table fully spread out under really wet towels. Wrapper prep on average is 12 hours for me. Sometimes I've done it as little as 4. But I've done it up to 24 before. I haven't done anything over 24.

Try gently spraying the wrapper and letting it sit inside a tied up bag overnight.

 

[keithjjones]

Try gently spraying the wrapper and letting it sit inside a tied up bag overnight.

Yup, done that too. I switched to this method after it started making better looking sticks. I guess I could add that in as a third stage and see if it helps.

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[blisscigarco]

It is tough. My single wrapper sticks look much cleaner.

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Actually the wrappers were good and the sticks turned out fine. I just didn't have any motivation to keep doing it.

 

[webmost]

Cruise thru this vid, Keith, just looking for the parts dealing with how damp a wrapper ought to be. I honestly can just spritz a bit, stretch my wrapper leaf, lay a breadboard on it, and by the time my bunch is done, that wrapper is ready. Gains an inch of stretch in a few minutes. I forget what wrapper that was. Let's assume that Ec seco habano shade. Might have been the Ec viso H2k shade.

On the other.hand, here you are with CT shade. I have had CT shade fairly stretchy. My previous CT shade from FX was huge 20+ inch leaves stretchy as silly putty. On the other hand, I'm doing a batch of 50 right now with a different crop of FX CT shade. These leaves are way smaller, delicate as hell, about the thickness of tissue paper. I spritzed them weeks ago and set them in a cooler at around 80% humidibbidity. I have to fool and fool with a leaf to get it unfolded; then it lays down flat flat flat ... but it hardly stretches at all. Same seed, same shade, even the same source... but totally different stretch, for this crop. What I'm saying is, it might not be your method, see -- it may be your leaf is just not inclined to stretch. I don't know why different bales differ so much. Have to ask the farmer, I spose. All's I know, they do differ.

I keep harping on the H2k from WLT, which I started wrapping my little perfectos with when I first began rolling gars. Tried everything from Bezuki to Swarr, but nothing has came close to that stuff. That H2k was a reasonably thick leaf. Hint of an olive color. Deep moody flavor. Did not need much wetting down time at all. That batch came; that batch went; no batch of H2k has come close since for flavor. And I have bought and tried every batch of H2k I can lay my hands on. None close. None as strong when handled. But the Ec seco habano shade can at least get stretchy, though maybe as third as thick.

These batches of leaves, there's no consistency to them.

Try this: try a different type of wrapper. It may not be your technique. It may be the leaf you are using is not stretchy.

 

[blisscigarco]

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Cruise thru this vid, Keith, just looking for the parts dealing with how damp a wrapper ought to be. I honestly can just spritz a bit, stretch my wrapper leaf, lay a breadboard on it, and by the time my bunch is done, that wrapper is ready. Gains an inch of stretch in a few minutes. I forget what wrapper that was. Let's assume that Ec seco habano shade. Might have been the Ec viso H2k shade.

On the other.hand, here you are with CT shade. I have had CT shade fairly stretchy. My previous CT shade from FX was huge 20+ inch leaves stretchy as silly putty. On the other hand, I'm doing a batch of 50 right now with a different crop of FX CT shade. These leaves are way smaller, delicate as hell, about the thickness of tissue paper. I spritzed them weeks ago and set them in a cooler at around 80% humidibbidity. I have to fool and fool with a leaf to get it unfolded; then it lays down flat flat flat ... but it hardly stretches at all. Same seed, same shade, even the same source... but totally different stretch, for this crop. What I'm saying is, it might not be your method, see -- it may be your leaf is just not inclined to stretch. I don't know why different bales differ so much. Have to ask the farmer, I spose. All's I know, they do differ.

I keep harping on the H2k from WLT, which I started wrapping my little perfectos with when I first began rolling gars. Tried everything from Bezuki to Swarr, but nothing has came close to that stuff. That H2k was a reasonably thick leaf. Hint of an olive color. Deep moody flavor. Did not need much wetting down time at all. That batch came; that batch went; no batch of H2k has come close since for flavor. And I have bought and tried every batch of H2k I can lay my hands on. None close. None as strong when handled. But the Ec seco habano shade can at least get stretchy, though maybe as third as thick.

These batches of leaves, there's no consistency to them.

Try this: try a different type of wrapper. It may not be your technique. It may be the leaf you are using is not stretchy.

I nominate this oost

 

[keithjjones]

Cruise thru this vid, Keith, just looking for the parts dealing with how damp a wrapper ought to be. I honestly can just spritz a bit, stretch my wrapper leaf, lay a breadboard on it, and by the time my bunch is done, that wrapper is ready. Gains an inch of stretch in a few minutes. I forget what wrapper that was. Let's assume that Ec seco habano shade. Might have been the Ec viso H2k shade.

On the other.hand, here you are with CT shade. I have had CT shade fairly stretchy. My previous CT shade from FX was huge 20+ inch leaves stretchy as silly putty. On the other hand, I'm doing a batch of 50 right now with a different crop of FX CT shade. These leaves are way smaller, delicate as hell, about the thickness of tissue paper. I spritzed them weeks ago and set them in a cooler at around 80% humidibbidity. I have to fool and fool with a leaf to get it unfolded; then it lays down flat flat flat ... but it hardly stretches at all. Same seed, same shade, even the same source... but totally different stretch, for this crop. What I'm saying is, it might not be your method, see -- it may be your leaf is just not inclined to stretch. I don't know why different bales differ so much. Have to ask the farmer, I spose. All's I know, they do differ.

I keep harping on the H2k from WLT, which I started wrapping my little perfectos with when I first began rolling gars. Tried everything from Bezuki to Swarr, but nothing has came close to that stuff. That H2k was a reasonably thick leaf. Hint of an olive color. Deep moody flavor. Did not need much wetting down time at all. That batch came; that batch went; no batch of H2k has come close since for flavor. And I have bought and tried every batch of H2k I can lay my hands on. None close. None as strong when handled. But the Ec seco habano shade can at least get stretchy, though maybe as third as thick.

These batches of leaves, there's no consistency to them.

Try this: try a different type of wrapper. It may not be your technique. It may be the leaf you are using is not stretchy.

Was there a vid you wanted me to watch?

I've tried CT shade, CT Maduro, pa oscuro, Corojo, and San Andres. All of them stretch big time. Like double the size in some cases. All of them I wet no less than 12 hours in most cases. The only reliable method I've found was the one I outlined above. It takes manual stretching with the hydration. Hydration is not enough, unless I should be wetting it for days. I don't mind trying that, as I have time. I thought 24 hours would be enough, max.

The only leaf I've tried that doesn't stretch was wlt e shade. It was way too thin.

I think my home office, where I store my stash, is like 40% humidity due to constant ac. I usually keep it 68-70 degrees consistently too. But that shouldn't matter if they are literally covered by a wet towel on my rolling board.

I put 4 leaves in a bag and I'll see how they look in the morning. I've tried it before, but who knows.

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[keithjjones]

Cruise thru this vid, Keith, just looking for the parts dealing with how damp a wrapper ought to be. I honestly can just spritz a bit, stretch my wrapper leaf, lay a breadboard on it, and by the time my bunch is done, that wrapper is ready. Gains an inch of stretch in a few minutes. I forget what wrapper that was. Let's assume that Ec seco habano shade. Might have been the Ec viso H2k shade.

On the other.hand, here you are with CT shade. I have had CT shade fairly stretchy. My previous CT shade from FX was huge 20+ inch leaves stretchy as silly putty. On the other hand, I'm doing a batch of 50 right now with a different crop of FX CT shade. These leaves are way smaller, delicate as hell, about the thickness of tissue paper. I spritzed them weeks ago and set them in a cooler at around 80% humidibbidity. I have to fool and fool with a leaf to get it unfolded; then it lays down flat flat flat ... but it hardly stretches at all. Same seed, same shade, even the same source... but totally different stretch, for this crop. What I'm saying is, it might not be your method, see -- it may be your leaf is just not inclined to stretch. I don't know why different bales differ so much. Have to ask the farmer, I spose. All's I know, they do differ.

I keep harping on the H2k from WLT, which I started wrapping my little perfectos with when I first began rolling gars. Tried everything from Bezuki to Swarr, but nothing has came close to that stuff. That H2k was a reasonably thick leaf. Hint of an olive color. Deep moody flavor. Did not need much wetting down time at all. That batch came; that batch went; no batch of H2k has come close since for flavor. And I have bought and tried every batch of H2k I can lay my hands on. None close. None as strong when handled. But the Ec seco habano shade can at least get stretchy, though maybe as third as thick.

These batches of leaves, there's no consistency to them.

Try this: try a different type of wrapper. It may not be your technique. It may be the leaf you are using is not stretchy.

Also most professional rollers look like their wrapper is already pre stretched. Mine never looks like that. I always have to pull on it when rolling, even if I spend a ton of time stretching it when it is hydrating.

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[Gdaddy]

You can do this if you want.

It appears to me that he isn't stretching the wrapper.

 

[Marc L]

It's an honest question, does it take more than 24 hours? Because I've done a full day.

Most likely. If rushed, elasticity is compromised. With shade grown leaf, staining is problematic.

As a reference - same wrapper, same prep. This time there is only one wrapper so I could stretch a little more generously while rolling it on. I did a close up because the far away pictures look worse than they are. They are shiny and smooth.

These examples also show vein staining and, lamina bruising as well as seem lifting. Most likely due to a rushed casing of the leaf.
There is a hardening that will occur if there is a repeated wetting and drying. Or if there have been an unbalanced nutritive cultivation of the leaf.
Of which the result is compromised elasticity.

My prep usually has hanging the wrapper in a shower by the stem. I spray it so it stays damp for several hours while I occasionally stretch them by hand. Then for several more hours I lay it on my rolling table fully spread out under really wet towels. Wrapper prep on average is 12 hours for me. Sometimes I've done it as little as 4. But I've done it up to 24 before. I haven't done anything over 24.

The leaf will tell you how much.
If your going to drench it, shake it off thoroughly. shade leaf tends to stain and, does not like to be drenched. A bag works if you close it in between.
Even better, make cigars in a moist environment.
Shade leaf lacks the oils that gives other leaves that much loved, stretch integrity.

... most professional rollers look like their wrapper is already pre stretched. Mine never looks like that. I always have to pull on it when rolling, even if I spend a ton of time stretching it when it is hydrating.

By the time those rollers get them they have been de-veined, sorted, booked, folded and, set in a case for them by other workers.

It appears to me that he isn't stretching the wrapper.

It does to me. look at his left thumb. it holds the outer while his left fingers hold the inner. right hand keeps it taught. he backs it up when needed.

 

[webmost]

Was there a vid you wanted me to watch?
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I cannot say for sure why my link disappeared... but I suspect it's because I sent it from my iDunno CathodeRayTube using TappaKeggaBrew. Here it is again:

MarcL hits on a whole lotta truths here:

With shade grown leaf, staining is problematic ... shade leaf tends to stain and, does not like to be drenched.

Boy that sure is true. Some of that will dry out and go away with the CT shade -- but not all. The Ecuador habano shade has the advantage of being dark. Bliss and Marc appear to have the patience to pamper their shade along. I'm like you -- two damp towels and let's get busy.

Bliss has a vid somewheres showing wrapper prep, I believe. Painstaking three day process, IIRC.

 

[keithjjones]

Most likely. If rushed, elasticity is compromised. With shade grown leaf, staining is problematic.

These examples also show vein staining and, lamina bruising as well as seem lifting. Most likely due to a rushed casing of the leaf.
There is a hardening that will occur if there is a repeated wetting and drying. Or if there have been an unbalanced nutritive cultivation of the leaf.
Of which the result is compromised elasticity.

The leaf will tell you how much.
If your going to drench it, shake it off thoroughly. shade leaf tends to stain and, does not like to be drenched. A bag works if you close it in between.
Even better, make cigars in a moist environment.
Shade leaf lacks the oils that gives other leaves that much loved, stretch integrity.

By the time those rollers get them they have been de-veined, sorted, booked, folded and, set in a case for them by other workers.

It does to me. look at his left thumb. it holds the outer while his left fingers hold the inner. right hand keeps it taught. he backs it up when needed.

The seams are on there pretty tight. I don't know what vein staining is, or lamina bruising.

The leaves in the bag overnight are still damp. They aren't stretched.

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[blisscigarco]

I rolled this so long ago (16 months) that as I was sitting there this morning, in the blistering heat, for a minute I couldn't remember who the hell the guy was on the label! Man, this simple cigar was incredible. One of those, "If this is all I could smoke for the rest of my life, that wouldn't be terrible" cigars.

It's Modigliani.

 

[keithjjones]

I cannot say for sure why my link disappeared... but I suspect it's because I sent it from my iDunno CathodeRayTube using TappaKeggaBrew. Here it is again:

MarcL hits on a whole lotta truths here:

Boy that sure is true. Some of that will dry out and go away with the CT shade -- but not all. The Ecuador habano shade has the advantage of being dark. Bliss and Marc appear to have the patience to pamper their shade along. I'm like you -- two damp towels and let's get busy.

Bliss has a vid somewheres showing wrapper prep, I believe. Painstaking three day process, IIRC.

Really helpful video. I watched the whole thing. Thanks!

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[Gdaddy]

I cannot say for sure why my link disappeared... but I suspect it's because I sent it from my iDunno CathodeRayTube using TappaKeggaBrew. Here it is again:

MarcL hits on a whole lotta truths here:

Boy that sure is true. Some of that will dry out and go away with the CT shade -- but not all. The Ecuador habano shade has the advantage of being dark. Bliss and Marc appear to have the patience to pamper their shade along. I'm like you -- two damp towels and let's get busy.

Bliss has a vid somewheres showing wrapper prep, I believe. Painstaking three day process, IIRC.

Good video. I like the close up perspective of having the camera strapped to your chest. You can see the detail quite well.

This goes to show there's more than one way to peel an orange. Everyone applies their own style of doing things differently.

 

[keithjjones]

Good video. I like the close up perspective of having the camera strapped to your chest. You can see the detail quite well.

This goes to show there's more than one way to peel an orange. Everyone applies their own style of doing things differently.

I just rolled the leaf I wet down 16 his ago. I used a large ceramic floor tile. Being able to stick the leaf to the surface changed the game. I picked that up from web's video. Great tip. Made my barber poles turn it much better. They are drying now.

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