Psd4
- Thread starter Irritech
- Start date
Cigar_Jack
BoM May 05
I can tell the difference. I'm just saying that I think even for some of us who claim it is for the twang and unique flavor are more about the mystique than they admit.
Anymore with so many good cigars that are legal I've stopped taking chances. The twang isn't worth having the OFAC snooping around in my Credit Card Transtactions. heh....
Irritech
Punch Super
I don't know Jack, I think I have to disagree with the first part of your post. Their definately are a few people in that boat, and I would bet they are the ones that are getting them from the guy who has the aunt that's married to a guy with a best friend that works in the Partagas factory if you get my drift. They think they are smoking Cuban and that's good enough for them. I most surely see your point with the second part of the post though. However, there are ways not to leave that CC (credit card) paper trail. :glassesgr
The differences have been argued for eons, seems to me the general buying public has the final say by what they purchase. Outside of the USA and it's possessions, Cuban cigars are the most sought-after cigars in the world and while most would agree the "twang" ain't worth the recent problems it has been causing for some US citizens, the "twang" is what the rest of the world is buying in record numbers.
Very good point, Ken. This leads to another of my beliefs that there are huge dollars at stake that never want to see the embargo lifted. The NC producers have become huge as a direct result of the embargo. While I have no statistics at hand, my guess is that most of their sales are to the U.S., which is a captive market. As Ken notes, it is not Padron and Arturo Fuente that are being sought after by the rest of the world. The global market says it wants Cuban cigars, not the latest NC, which makes it clear which smokes are thought superior by the majority of the planet. There is no reason to think those in the U.S. will feel any different, en masse, given time and exposure. The rest of the world is saying, flat out: "Cuban cigars are better." There are a lot of people with a lot to lose if the embargo is ever lifted.
:rofl:
Irritech
Punch Super
Crazy as it seems to me now, I never thought of it that way. I agree Fox, it is a very good point. If the rest of the world wanted Fuentes, you better believe the Fuentes would figure out a way to supply them. The fact that they don't speaks volumes.:eyepoke:
I am not sure I agree. Carlitos is an expert marketer. Keep the volume down, keep the quality good, keeps the prices up. We have all seen good cigar makers that went to volume and lost their lustre. I think he is doing exactly what he wants to with the land and tobacco he has got.
That being said, I have heard that the overall quality and taste of the cuban product is par to none. So I've heard.
Irritech
Punch Super
I like dice. LOL:bouncetau
Ah, Chuck, but that is exactly my point. The U.S. market with the embargo gives him 300 million potential consumers that want cigars, but cannot have the forbidden fruit. He keeps volume artificially low because it maximizes his profit. If he could make more money competing with CC's in the rest of the world he would do so. My guess is that like any good company he has done test marketing over the years and found demand to be lacking. . .:wink:
Disclaimer - I am a huge fan of smoke what you like. My point here is that the rest of the world has come to the same conclusion as Irritech. It is foreign policy, politics and economics that give consumers in this country a different view from the rest of the world. NC producers will continue to rape the unsuspecting public with Opus-X, et al, while the market is artifically controlled. They will spend millions upon millions of dollars supporting Little Cuba and candidates that refuse to lift the embargo. As always, follow the money. . .:smile:
Forbidden fruit...Oh how I wish there was a suitable NC alternative to Bolivar PCs
hmmmm...Though I agree that the PSD4 is a great stick I disagree with your assessment on world wide demand and NC companies selling in other areas of the world. For many companies there are trade market that would prevent them from selling their stick to other countries besides the US. For others there is a huge issue with distribution. Though the distribution issue would take time and money to fix why would they risk it while they have access to this market. If I remember correctly, the cigars sells here in the US is more than the rest of the world. I will have to double check this, but I pretty sure it is correct. Assuming that it is, then wouldn't it be counter productive to spend a lot more money to try an enter a market that is less profitable. There are a lot more factors involved, but I will not concede that CC are the best. In fact, it really depends on my mood as to which cigar is the best. As for value per $$. I would agree CC probably out do NC's.
Cigar_Jack
BoM May 05
My point wasn't coming across right in this post. I didn't mean to be so negative.
Maybe I'm just grumpy I've only got 2 ISOM's in my humidor and none of them are Partagas. LOL!
Thank you for those 2 Eric!
Maybe I'm just grumpy I've only got 2 ISOM's in my humidor and none of them are Partagas. LOL!
Thank you for those 2 Eric!
For our purposes here I am making the assumption that the NC producers are free to sell their product on the world market, other than in the U.S., on a level playing field with the Cubans. The reason that they do not sell around the world is because they CANNOT compete. No matter what you and I decide we prefer, the world market itself, which is roughly 95% of the world population, is demanding CC's, not NC's. I am coming to the realization that the NC producers have far, far more to lose than we may have ever realized and with tens of millions of dollars at their disposal will fight the embargo with everything they have. I am saying that if the embargo was lifted tomorrow the NC producers would be in a world of hurt. I am saying that 95% of the world's potential buyers DO NOT want their product; they want the competitor's product. It is the market itself that is dictating whether they sell or distribute in areas besides the U.S. Regardless of one's desire to distribute one's product, if the market will not buy the product then distribution becomes a moot point. I am saying that it is the embargo itself and U.S. trade policy in general that has created the large NC producers and that market can only be viable with the embargo in place. The more I think about this issue the more I believe that there are far too many people with too much money at stake, here and abroad, to allow the embargo to ever be lifted. . .:sadcry: :sadcry: :sadcry:
avid toker
Regulator
Gotta disagree with you there. A lot of the NC producers know that the embargo would not last forever. They've already developed blends that incorporate cuban and non-cuban tobacco together. However, none of them feel the need to offer a cuban puro at this time. And if the embargo fell, that would have no effect on Europe's consumption of NC cigars which is quite healthy to begin with. Somehow if the embargo fell soon, the likes of Padron, Fuente, Torano would be just fine me thinks.
Fuente Anejo 48 = $22
Arturo Fuente Hemingway Masterpiece = $35
Arturo Fuente Hemingway Short Story = $14,30
Opus X Double Corona = $50,30 (!!!)
PSD4 = $7,24
Montecristo A = $23
Cohiba Siglo VI = $18,50
These are the prices I pay approximately.
As you can see, the prices are outrageous for NC's here in Europe.
Rather have 2 PSD4's than a Short Story.
Arturo Fuente Hemingway Masterpiece = $35
Arturo Fuente Hemingway Short Story = $14,30
Opus X Double Corona = $50,30 (!!!)
PSD4 = $7,24
Montecristo A = $23
Cohiba Siglo VI = $18,50
These are the prices I pay approximately.
As you can see, the prices are outrageous for NC's here in Europe.
Rather have 2 PSD4's than a Short Story.
Where are you purchasing your cigars? :scratchhe
Thoughs prices are extremes for NC cigars. Use the power of the internet to obtain better prices.
Anejos are about $9ish at my B&M (seasonal smokes),
Hemmingways Masterpeice - $13.50
Hemingway Short Story - $4.16
http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars/search/sr.cfm/st/1/bc/HEM
Opus X Double Corona are around $20ish at my B&M (Whenever they get shipped out)