Food for thought

[Lorax429]

Interesting commentary on Stogie Guys this morning. While I have thought some of the new names showing up on cigars was kind of ridiculous (i.e. MUWAT) I never really gave any of them much thought (and I don't think I qualify as an old fogey yet). I find myself agreeing with the author. I can easily envision this new trend in cigar names being used against the industry by anti-smoking zealots....

http://www.stogieguys.com/2011/12/12152011-commentary-whats-in-a-name.html

 

[Jfire]

UZI came out in 1987! How on earth can anyone under the age of 30-40 even know or relate to it????? Pretty poor example imo if u ask me. And if I recall most 30 y.o. s now days are absolutely in love with 3rd person shooter games. Call of Duty, Batttlefield 3 etc..... Now if JD had blues clues, Dora or a teenage mutant ninja turtle on a box of cigars I'd be concerned. This seems more like the author is trying to make more of something then really is there to begin with. And if he is concerned about the antis trying to use this form of advertising against the cigar industry itself. It would then be our fight to make sure they don't successfully use this type of nonsense against ADULT cigar smokers..........

 

[orangedog]

...a teenage mutant ninja turtle on a box of cigars...

I'd buy that.

 

[cartisdm]

How on earth did I not know about a cigar named "Donkey Punch"? Maybe it's because I'm only 23, or maybe it's because marketing strategies work (damn them!), but I need to get my hands on one of these sticks.

That being said, I don't smoke cigars because I want to be up with the hippest releases. Honestly, I agree that the new naming strategies are mainstreaming the cigar market. Do we want this? Sure, maybe more people get into the hobby but I'm not really sure I want that.

I'll try to make a comparison to beer. Everyone I know just drinks Coors and Budweiser. All their fancy blue mountain cans and "extra taste, less filling" crap annoys me. The stuff tastes like piss. Every time I order a craft brew at the bar I get comments about why I'm not just ordering the daily special. As cigars make a shift to the mainstream market, I think regular joes will pick up smoking but not in the sense of enjoyment, but mearly because it's "popular." That wouldn't be so bad except I fear that companies will seek to capitalize on the new market and start making cheap tasteless cigars to suit them.

Anyone else agree?

 

[Lorax429]

It's not a matter of reality but rather of perception. And it isn't a matter of common sense but rather sensationalism. That is how the anti-tobacco folks work. That is how and why I think they could use the new names and marketing strategies to try and go after cigars. I don't how successful or unsuccessful they would be but I can could certainly envision them trying.

 

[SkinsFanLarry]

How on earth did I not know about a cigar named "Donkey Punch"? Maybe it's because I'm only 23, or maybe it's because marketing strategies work (damn them!), but I need to get my hands on one of these sticks.

That being said, I don't smoke cigars because I want to be up with the hippest releases. Honestly, I agree that the new naming strategies are mainstreaming the cigar market. Do we want this? Sure, maybe more people get into the hobby but I'm not really sure I want that.

I'll try to make a comparison to beer. Everyone I know just drinks Coors and Budweiser. All their fancy blue mountain cans and "extra taste, less filling" crap annoys me. The stuff tastes like piss. Every time I order a craft brew at the bar I get comments about why I'm not just ordering the daily special. As cigars make a shift to the mainstream market, I think regular joes will pick up smoking but not in the sense of enjoyment, but mearly because it's "popular." That wouldn't be so bad except I fear that companies will seek to capitalize on the new market and start making cheap tasteless cigars to suit them.

Anyone else agree?

Great comparison and Amen to that! :thumbsup:

 

[Cornrow_Wallis]

Studio tobac is making a cigar called the donkey punch? :agreesmil:agreesmil:agreesmil

That dude sounds like he is wound kind of tight. As always, if you don't like it, vote with your wallet.

 

[scotchNstogie]

Great comparison and Amen to that! :thumbsup:

Agreed, and I couldn't agree more, that although growth in an industry is generally good, often times it comes with a decrease in quality...

And AZ, I'm in the same boat with handing out cigars as a professional item. How can you hand out something with a crazy name. Even handing out a Man O War, one of my favs, can often have unintended consequences when representing the US.

 

[criollo]

I also find it hard to relate to some of the names I see in cigar advertizing.

In fact , there are a few things I see in cigar catalogs that I can't relate to. Perhaps there are two different "cigar worlds" that marketers are aiming at. To me, the sterotypical image of the cigar smoker is the Victorian gentleman wearing his smoking jacket while engaging in genteel conversation with friends in the smoking parlor in his home. On the other hand, there is this other image of the cigar smoker as a kick-ass rebel. Personally, my eyes just glaze over when I see, for example,a t-shirt saying "I'm a cigar smoker, meat eater, gun owner" and another t-shirt called the "gangster" shirt, both advertized in the CI catalog. But obviously, that rebel image does appeal to other buyers of cigars, and the companies want to reach those folks as well as they want to reach people like me.


Getting back to the article, I think he makes good points, and I would love to see the industry exercise some better judgement.

 

[Jonathan Drew]

Commentary Response.

1. "My UZI Weighs a Ton", priced at $8.95, $9.95 and $10.95, which is sold to adult establishments, in all Natural, Spiral Wound tobacco, advertised in only adult venues is .... alright in my book and hardly equal to a cigar called "HITLER". Its unfortunate to even have to reply to this, but I guess the bottom line is - Its our right, whether stupid or not to call a cigar a name that we want to, or blend it the way we want to, or present it as such. Is a green candella cigar called Iguana stupid, or Tatuaje Pork Chop, or Poppi Chulo, or Inmenso, or Dark Rituals, or the other 500 names that represent EXPERESSION .... ? Seems as though everyone may not agree with me, but hello, we live in AMERICA ... I thought the article was BORING and Amateur .... a big snor.

2. When Meeting with Dignitaries and Heads of States or Prezidents of countries, and such - I would give them a Padron "1926 #9", Joya de Nicaragua "Gran Consul" or Fuente "Puxxy Juice." For other "MORE COMMON FOLK" who may be meeting with a musician or artist or painter or spiritual leader or design worker, or labor contractor, or Policeman or Fireman or "a friend" or just "the guy next store," I would suggest to give them what inspires YOU and what you like ... wether it be Fuente or MUWAT or TATUAJE or CAMACHO or whatever ... or even the funniest name ever, Iguana ... and not be worried what others think because we are Americans and we are FREE to think the way we want to (next step my friends is Canada where "THEY" tell you that a premium cigar is $65 each due to "Weight Tax" and that you cannot walk into a humidor because a politician gets the soccer mom votes for it) ....

Listen carefully to Brother JD ... "I DO NOT FEAR "THEM," I FEEL SAD FOR THEM BECAUSE WHEN A MAN FEELS SO IN NEED TO CONTROL OTHERS LIVES, IT IS TYPICALLY THAT HE CANNOT CONTROL HIS OWN ... OR ... SIMPLY THAT HIS JEALOUSY RAGES WITHIN HIM" ... (See Elliot Spitzer and his socks for example) ...

And by the way, KINDLY tell all those Dignitary Prezidents that your supposedly meeting with to get a balanced budget and not squander my mothers SOCIAL SECURITY that she paid into for her whole life working as a registered nurse. And after your done, please thank them for me ... if they have been HONEST and GOOD and TRUE and FAIR and ETHICAL and CLEAN ... and send them an Iguana Cigar on me.

AMERICA = FREEDOM - I may be the first male in my family to be a civilian, but I Never forget one thing ... FREEDOM AND LIBERTY !!!!!

3. And finally, last but not least ... While it may seem fine for a FEW people to agree to ban a blunt (Which the names has been used by premium and popular priced cigars for over 40 years) it is only the first step that the antis will take. The next will be the banning of the strong cigar because of the nicotine (and yes, you will feel harmed, but some dude will kindly say on a forum page "Yeah, how about those super powerful cigars ... trying to hook people on nicotine" ... then will be the cigar with raw material from countries that are not in a certain geographic area, then will be the next thing and the next thing and the next....

FEAR .....
BULLYING ...
INTOLERANCE ....
MANIPULATION ....

These are just my opinions and I'm sorry if I offended anyone, as I truly have respect for each and every BOTL, even when our feelings may differ.

Best,
JD

 

[usmcpurcell]

I just see it like this I don't care if the name of the cigar was hooker fungus if its a tasty smoke I'm going to buy it. I don't see naming anything so called "crazy" names aims it toward younger generation I just see it keeping it fresh and unique instead of all the numbers that have been beat in the ground since the first cigar was rolled like #4,#3. That's just me I can understand about the machine made stuff moving on to premiums but i still don't think they should be thrown in as a cigar.

 

[Jonathan Drew]

AZ CIGAR NUT.

I know that you are quite thrilled with yourself for, as you put it "Ticking me off" and I know that you have been relishing in it each time that you have.

Up to this point, I have avoided answering your BULLYING nonsense directly because I know that it will look like "JD the Cigar Manufacturer" is picking on sad little AZ CIGAR NUT ... but now that you have proved how incredibly tough you are, climbing out of your "mud soaked Big Ass Jeep" or your ultra cool, hipster "Chopper", of course wearing your "Road Shirt and Designer Jeans" and "over the top shoes with some kind of design in them" ... I feel that you are fully big, bad, and tough enough that people may let me slide.

My first unpleasant and unwarrented experience with you was when YOU posted on this board that you "just became the President of the Bagdad Cigar Club and that you needed some information about ACID, as the cigars were left over from the guy before you," clearly indicating that you would not have purchased them for the guys yourself. I responded that you could look up the information you need on the DE website. You continued on and on, waiting for people to join your ACID Bashing experience, but it really didn't happen.

Now, anyone who knows me would understand that I almost ALWAYS answer everyones questions and go out of my way for absolutely everyone ... EXCEPT FOR YOU AZ CIGAR NUT ... and there is a reason, which you helped shed light on in our following exchange regarding CRA.

As you blasted and disrespected CRA, and DEMANDED to know your "5 points," including points #4 and #5 , regarding what CRA is doing for "YOU PERSONALLY NOW AND IN THE FUTURE, I had to laugh. You are simply a joke. Not because you put down the organization that I am most proud to be part of, or because you put down the organization that everyone from Fuente, to Padron, to Litto Gomez, to Pete Johnson, to Gran Habano, to Altadis, to General Cigar, to Alan Rubin, to etc, etc etc, .... not for this reason, BUT YOU ARE A JOKE AZ CIGAR NUT BECAUSE YOU LACK RESPECT AND THINK THAT BY BULLYING PEOPLE AROUND THAT YOU WILL GAIN RESPECT FROM OTHERS ... But you are sadly mistaken.

1. AZ CIGAR NUT - If you don't like my brand, or the next guy's brand that you care to BULLY AROUND AFTER ME, just don't buy it. Why put people down?

2. If you don't believe in CRA, simply don't join it, but don't disrespect an entire organization that has fought hard to protect your rights (ironically enough). And if you think you can do better, than hop to it (in between Monster Trucking in your "Big Ass Watch", Shoes, Chopper, and Shirt" and big Presidential Meetings - and help save the industry .... but don't BULLY us guys around.

3. And stop BULLYING people around who want to wear "Beanies and skull shirts", or say "Yo" to each other, cause none of us answer to you. I answer to my mother and father only !!! And AZ CIGAR NUT, they have never been BULLIES, like you, nor been discriminatory to anybody, like you, and never put people who are different from them down, like you.

4. So, "Cheers" to you buddy, and go find some President's ass to kiss and hand them whatever cigar you want.... Stay away from me and don't bother with my threads and I won't bother with yours. Learn how to be kind to people and go find someone else to "Tick off, eh". I'm sure that you will find great pleasure in it.

JD

 

[ciggy]

I'm in my 40's and like to play video games...what's wrong with that!? :dunno:

I find the debate in question...rediculous! Who care's what it's called, why it's called, or when it was called. The cigar maker has a right to lable there cigar how they see fit and as long as it's good...well that's all I ask. I swear people are always trying to find an angle these days to fuck up a good thing.
They did the same thing with Camel Joe "cigarettes". Tried to say the Camel was driving children to there product. Really....come on!! The whole thing is just laughable.

 

[javajunkie]

end of the day, guys, vote with your money. seriously.

i will buy anything once to try. after that the name may influence me not to re-buy. that is my choice contrasted to the manufacturer's choice, and a basic fact of free market consumer economics.

i take issue with intentionally inflamitory names, but have only seen one yet, possibly offensive to asiatic people, asian-americans, or ww2 era folk (in my view). but free speech is predicated on ALL viewpoints, not some. if you do not support the right to say what you do not like, you WILL lose rights to say things yourself.

first world western point of view: speak with your currency.

 

[Lorax429]

I don't think the article suggest that cigar manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to name and market their cigars how they want to. Of course they are free to do whatever they see fit with in the confines of the law. That doesn't mean that they aren't potential unforeseen consequences of doing so (edit: re-read the article and the author even says as much). Like i said, the anti-tobacco zealots are not usually know for being reasonable. They use sensationalism to skew perspective to help them attain their goals. If the idea occurs to a cigar smoker that these trendy "youthful' names and imaging could be used by the anti's to try and damage the cigar industries image, it is reasonable to think that those folks might have the same idea. The effectiveness for their cause is of course debatable and whether or not any of this ever comes to pass is too. But it isn't hard to see the opening it gives them.

I just something to think about and consider.

 

[sofc]

I would smoke a T52 if it was called. "I just throat punched your mom" and if I liked a cigar and didn't care for the name, I could easily take the band off.

 

[hdroadglide]

^^what he said^^

 

[smokinghole]

I hate to call JD and AZ nut names but you know what they say about arguing on the internet.......

It doesn't matter whether its cigars or beer, extreme stuff sells. There seems to be two marketing styles that succeed in markets like tobacco and alcohol. One would be traditional reputation and long history/artsy historical back in time appearance. The other seems to be "extreme". So we have cigars named after implements of war, ooooh my god! There are beers called Raging Bitch, Arrogant Bastard, Dark Lord and so forth. Sheesh ease up. I hear you guys saying this sort of marketing can affect us smokers in a bad way. The reality is that they don't need to use the branding names to fight against us. They can use all the flawed science and statistically irrelevant facts they have to condemn the cigar business. Names won't add fuel to the fire as far as I'm concerned, if it was a potential sticking point then the craft beer industry would be next on their agenda.

Seriously, cigar names/bands are tame. Raging Bitch has an engorged dog vagina and saggy nipples on the label! I think the dude that did some work for Fear and Loathing does the illustrations for Flying Dog. So don't get your panties in a wad about cigars named things like angry dragon or pussy juice. In a "free" market the consumers will decide whether the names are acceptable. If the cigar sells like shit because it's offensive then it will likely renamed. Hell I think cigars are renamed and released as a different offering with simple wrapper change all the time.

 

[cartisdm]

I hate to call JD and AZ nut names but you know what they say about arguing on the internet.......

It doesn't matter whether its cigars or beer, extreme stuff sells. There seems to be two marketing styles that succeed in markets like tobacco and alcohol. One would be traditional reputation and long history/artsy historical back in time appearance. The other seems to be "extreme". So we have cigars named after implements of war, ooooh my god! There are beers called Raging Bitch, Arrogant Bastard, Dark Lord and so forth. Sheesh ease up. I hear you guys saying this sort of marketing can affect us smokers in a bad way. The reality is that they don't need to use the branding names to fight against us. They can use all the flawed science and statistically irrelevant facts they have to condemn the cigar business. Names won't add fuel to the fire as far as I'm concerned, if it was a potential sticking point then the craft beer industry would be next on their agenda.

Seriously, cigar names/bands are tame. Raging Bitch has an engorged dog vagina and saggy nipples on the label! I think the dude that did some work for Fear and Loathing does the illustrations for Flying Dog. So don't get your panties in a wad about cigars named things like angry dragon or pussy juice. In a "free" market the consumers will decide whether the names are acceptable. If the cigar sells like shit because it's offensive then it will likely renamed. Hell I think cigars are renamed and released as a different offering with simple wrapper change all the time.

You know, I don't know why it didn't cross my mind before, but I didn't even think about all the funky craft beer names. Those crack me up! Even the season names like Punkin Ale, Hoptober, etc. are pretty amusing too. Thanks for opening my eyes

 

[Jonathan Drew]

Hey AZ CIGAR NUT.

I knew that this was exactly what you would do ... make some dome joke and just think that this dies with that. But it doesn't.

Let me make it clear ... you are a disgusting foul person, hardly looking for the "DEBATE" that you keep claiming when it comes to CRA and other posts. Your just a two bit bully and a clown. I question that any dignitaries would waste any time on you.

And speaking for the CRA , keep your $35 ... its dirty money.

JD