15 Year old Tobacco?

[djs134]

Has anyone been following JR’s articles in Cigar Magazine regarding the age of the tobacco reportedly in some of the NC cigars on the market today. He makes quite a bit of sense. I’ve found that I enjoy RP’s vintage series, but now I ask myself whether I want to encourage the marketing of wrappers from 90 and 92 when this apparently can not be the case.

Thoughts anyone?
:dunno:

 

[Greg]

I haven't read the articles, could you provide a link?

 

[djs134]

Unfortunately CM apparently doesn't post their articles online. The upshot of them is that farmers/producers usually keep about 3 years worth of tobacco in stock in various stages of the process and that in the mid 90's (during the "boom") they were using EVERYTHING in order to keep up with demand. His point being that if that was the case, where was all of this tobacco being hid? And why would you hide it when the boom was in progress and profits where to be had in such a high percentage?

 

[Wasch_24]

Ahhhhhh, makes perfect sense Dan.

 

[Greg]

So the implication is that cigar manufacturers are lying when they say they are using decades-old tobacco in their cigars?

Not surprising, however, I too, thought Patel's Vintage lines were/are the real deal, but I also wonder how so many bales of wrapper leaf could be left unaccounted for during such a demanding time.

 

[djs134]

Yeah, it really struck a cord with me. I'm really going to start watching claims of the stick that I buy. According to JR, they were even using the very top of the plant, the stuff that traditionally went to the snuff and chewing tobacco people.....

 

[Greg]

Is this the JR of JR Cigars?

If so, don't you think there's a little conflict of interest as well?

 

[jcgoldner]

I would be surprised if RP or JR's is trying to intentionally deceive us on this one. They would have a lot to lose if they are ever caught on it. My guess is that it's the supplier of the tobacco to these comapnies that are making these age statements.

These seems similiar to the Pinar cigars that came out a few year back.

 

[Greg]

I would be surprised if RP or JR's is trying to intentionally deceive us on this one. They would have a lot to lose if they are ever caught on it. My guess is that it's the supplier of the tobacco to these comapnies that are making these age statements.

These seems similiar to the Pinar cigars that came out a few year back.

That could be true also.

The point I was making was that JR bashing RP might be a conflict of interest, since JR's does not sell the RP line.

 

[djs134]

Is this the JR of JR Cigars?

If so, don't you think there's a little conflict of interest as well?

I thought of that, JR doesn't carry RP's cigars apparently. But if you read the articles in CM, they make quite a bit of sense.

I would be surprised if RP or JR's is trying to intentionally deceive us on this one. They would have a lot to lose if they are ever caught on it. My guess is that it's the supplier of the tobacco to these comapnies that are making these age statements.

These seems similiar to the Pinar cigars that came out a few year back.

It's a tough business. Cigar producers have to get their sticks to stand out from all the rest on the selves of the B&Ms and the list on Internet sites. Not being in the business, I can only go by the impressions I get from what I read, but it seems to be a relatively small community and I would think Rocky would know whether having wrappers from '90 or 92 were possible. Lying? Marketing. "It was from private stock not made available during the boom." is what you most likely would hear if pressed. Somehow, I would think that economics would prevail upon a business if the opportunity to realize great profits presented itself. Especially when said business wouldn't have any idea how long such an opportunity would last or come again. Apparently there was a very long level production prior to the "boom".

 

[djs134]

Also, JR did not mention Rocky by name. He was ranting against ALL cigars claiming to have tobacco that was from the early to mid 90s. That would include the Cusano 18s too.

 

[Greg]

I agree with your points Dan, just playing the Devil's Advocate a little.

I've often wondered the same thing as well--where are they getting all of this aged tobacco?

 

[djs134]

No sweat, I don't really know where I stand exactly. I like RP's products. Especially the Edge and his OWR now. Just makes you think....

 

[Electric Sheep]

While JR's--or more accurately, Lew Rothman's--logic seems to makes perfect sense on the surface, I've learned that blanket statements usually fail to cover ALL the potential posibilites, and therefore are nothing but a sweeping generalization at best, and FUD at worst.

For example, a LOT of tobacco is produced on small, backwater farms in third-world coountries. Are we to believe that these folks knew about--much less understood--the explosive "cigar boom" going on here? Or that every family farm is known to every cigar manufacturter/buyer? Or that the tobacco buyers milked 100% of all these farmers of 100% of their inventory?

And what about speculators? In any kind of "boom" there are those who believe it can grow even larger--financial gamblers, if you will, who'd be willing to set aside at least some tobacco just in case it continued to rise. Are we to believe that 100% of these folks (gamblers & speculators!) sold 100% of their tobacco, leaving no 'gambling' room whatsoever?

And what about the huge number of post-boom failures--you know, the cigar makers who bought tobacco and made cigars, but didn't survive the end of the "boom"? Are we to believe that 100% of the cigar makers used and/or sold 100% of their inventory before going out of business? That there was no tobacco whatsoever in the liquidation process?

While there was an extreme tobacco leaf shortage, did 100% of the cigar makers use 100% of their tobacco inventory? Maybe the big boys at the time like General and Consolidated did, but the smaller outfits? Isn't it plausible that some of them would be worried enough about being able to produce something--anything--that they'd stash at least SOME tobacco for a rainy day? For example, a CA article on Rolando Reyes during the boom said, "Cuba Aliados has nearly $2 million tied up in tobacco inventory." Was that a lie?

Listen, there's no doubt that the massive shortage during the "boom" caused the vast majority of cigar tobacco to be used up. And it's probably a safe bet that a lot of this "aged tobacco" we're seeing today isn't actually aged, whether the cigar maker knows it or not.

But can anyone--even one as connected as Lew--really say with complete authority that 100% of the tobacco produced by 100% of the growers was used during the boom?

I tend doubt such blanked statements; little things always fall through the cracks. Even a few bales here and there could wrap quite a lot of cigars.

My long-winded 2¢ okemyeye

 

[djs134]

Very good points. However, in an economic atmosphere where a commodity that has brought in a stationary price for a long period of time suddenly sky-rockets and goes to bid for exorbitant prices, I would suspect that the available stock would indeed sell off. Added to that the necessity to start incorporating more of the lesser quality Indonesian tobaccos, leads me to believe that a producer would be more inclined to maintain quality for their established customers rather than lower it unnecessarily for the new ones.

I agree with your sentiments about blanket statements though. Maybe, as you say, there were untapped sources or that forward thinkers in the business did indeed “sock away” stock to be used in future product. However, Lew’s articles did make me question the apparently large quantity of quality tobacco available now when some of the more well known sticks at the time apparently suffered for lack of stock to maintain their previous quality. I can’t say first hand that they did. I was just returning to the cigar scene in 94 or so and walked into an atmosphere where there were more brands than I could imagine.

Interesting discussion though. As consumers it pays to objectively view the products we buy. For the most part, I like the RP Vintage cigars. I’d like them even if there wasn’t the impression that the wrappers were from ‘90 or ’92. But they go for more $ because of that impression.

 

[Wasch_24]

Very interesting reading so far guys!

 

[caudio51]

I have a hard time believing it as during the boom all the crop was getting eaten up. What, they just happened to save a ton for making RP Vintage??? Sounds sketchy

 

[Wasch_24]

And Pinar cigars just happened to find bales of pre embargo tobacco in a climate controlled facility!


:rofl:

 

[tobby4]

I have never really bought into that... I dont know, there is NO WAY that they let that stash sit there during the boom in a hope that another boom will come around in 5-10 years.

But people will believe anything, I will stick to my new stuff or stuff that I age myself...

 

[Rank_Tyro]

I like Rocky Patel's..........