WTF?! Beetles? Seriously?
- Thread starter Mossome
- Start date
There is much information online if you really are interested in freezing cigars. I personally don't think I know more than 2 people who do that and most of the people I know have way way more cigars than I do.
really hard to get rid of ALL the air unless you vacuum seal it and when you do that, you are going to damage your cigars. If you don't believe me, take a cheap cigar and do that.
I bought a box of cigars from a guy here once and they had vacuum packed it and the box was damaged because of the vacuum process so a cigar would be damaged much more.
I believe you. I'm just trying to work it out in my head and bounce ideas off of you more experienced brothers. That's just my process.
I don't plan on taking up freezing my cigars. I'm just feeling like maybe I should freeze those in the humidor I found the beetle in if only for peace of mind.
I don't plan on taking up freezing my cigars. I'm just feeling like maybe I should freeze those in the humidor I found the beetle in if only for peace of mind.
It is an each to your own type of thing. I agree with Ara if you vacuum seal a cigar it will damage it no questions asked my approach is different cigars in my bags do not overlap it is a single layer of cigars and then I zip it shut and do the good old fashion suck as much air out of the bag with my mouth as possible. I have had no issues but I don't have no crazy huge stash that's another thing too.
None of the studies support the notion that the eggs will not hatch if you keep your humidor below 75 degrees F.
One study reported that over ONE HALF of the viable eggs hatched at 65F and 67% relative humidity, while only ~1% hatched at ~60F and 67% RH.
The *ideal* conditions for the most eggs to be laid and the highest % to hatch is in the 80-85 deg F range at 70-75% RH, where temperature is more significant than RH. Also, the life cycle is completed the quickest in this range, so they can really multiple fast! This should be considered the danger zone.
The eggs are only viable for up to about 35 days. The larva period can be up to 30 days, but they can "overwinter" and remain dormant up to 250 days.
Freezing can destroy *all* stages of Lasioderma serricorne. Either 72 hours at -5 deg F or as little as 2 hours at -16 deg F.
BR,
STS
One study reported that over ONE HALF of the viable eggs hatched at 65F and 67% relative humidity, while only ~1% hatched at ~60F and 67% RH.
The *ideal* conditions for the most eggs to be laid and the highest % to hatch is in the 80-85 deg F range at 70-75% RH, where temperature is more significant than RH. Also, the life cycle is completed the quickest in this range, so they can really multiple fast! This should be considered the danger zone.
The eggs are only viable for up to about 35 days. The larva period can be up to 30 days, but they can "overwinter" and remain dormant up to 250 days.
Freezing can destroy *all* stages of Lasioderma serricorne. Either 72 hours at -5 deg F or as little as 2 hours at -16 deg F.
BR,
STS
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Given that the sticks nearest the scene of the crime are most in danger, why dont you freeze a couple of sticks and report back on any negative flavor changes?
I've frozen some of my stash but really cant remember which sticks they were, so cant say for sure if the flavor suffers due to freezing. I've read many accounts that say flavor doesn't suffer FWIW.
I've frozen some of my stash but really cant remember which sticks they were, so cant say for sure if the flavor suffers due to freezing. I've read many accounts that say flavor doesn't suffer FWIW.
StogieNinja
Derek | BoM June 2014
Steve, can you clarify this? It would seem you would need longer periods in the freezer at a higher temp?
Clarify how? One thing to consider is these durations are at the stated temps, so therefore the 72 hour clock at -16 degrees only starts ticking when the actual internal temperature of the barrel of the cigar is at this temp, so you need to allow the extra time required to achieve this. This is why as a general rule of thumb 3 to 4 days in a home freezer is considered the typical amount of time required.
What is actually happening to the eggs, larvae and/or bugs that kills them by freezing is their expansion of their moisture content which is killing them, aka cracking their "shell". I realize the thought of this can be a bit of a turn off given you are then still smoking the remnants, but this is same truth when it comes to the food we all eat. These same critters are part and parcel of every grain based product we consume, rice, bread, crackers, oats, etc. etc.
Like the food producers, cigar factories strive very hard to completely eliminate all tobacco beetles as they can be very devastating to a factory's tobacco and cigar inventories.
Ask me a specific question and I will do my best to answer it - thanks.
BR,
STS
luckysaturn13
Smoke it if ya got it!
I just moved my cigar storage to the basement keeps about 60-65 down there. I think it'll help avoid the risk some gets a lil warmer upstairs in the sunmerAnything above 72* and you're at a substantially higher risk for beetles, at 70* they can still hatch, but less likely. Below 70* and *in theory* you should be safe. Freezing is the best way to be sure as it cracks the carapace and kills them. 36 hours in the freezer then a day in the fridge, followed by 12 hours at room temperature will get you back to being able to put them in the humi. Make sure you double bag them as well before going in the freezer, and as someone mentioned, if you can re humidify them separate from the humidor that's even better so they don't drop the RH in the humidor when you reintroduce them to your other sticks.
StogieNinja
Derek | BoM June 2014
This statement:
I would assume you need longer freezing time at -5*F than you would at -16*F to do the same job.
If it takes 72hrs to ensure death at -16*F, wouldn't the warmer -5*F temp take longer to kill the larvae?
Thanks!
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StogieNinja
Derek | BoM June 2014
Thanks Steve! I was questioning everything I knew there for a moment
Edit: additional question, based on your statement about beetle larvae "overwintering"... if your cigars have been in your humidor for over a year (longer than the 250 days) with no new cigars introduced and no sign on beetles, there's no way a beetle larvae could still be alive in there, is that correct?
I hope I'm not out of line asking this in this thread and format, my apologies to the OP if I am. I recently started rolling cigars at home. I have been wondering is it best to freeze the leaf before rolling or waiting until the sticks are rolled? Due to where I live my apartment is already up to 80f and I am having some concerns about my growing supply of leaf. Thank you in advance.
You can do either, however leaf damage can be an issue. Best get the leaf around 70% rh, pack in one of those mega large ziplock flat and freeze... I would experiment with just a hand first before going hog wild. Be gentle when pulling it out, support it well as frozen leaf is easier to crack.
STS
STS
Thank you so much, that is excellent advice.
Spanish Cedar (Cedrela), commonly used for cigar boxes, is a hardwood, not a true cedar. The heartwood is naturally repellent to termites, but not powderpost beetles. I suspect that it's use in humidor and cigar box construction is more for the aromatic qualities and workability, and not pest control.
Interesting that this thread has popped up. I found one stick yesterday that had a single round hole in it:
Not sure how long the hole has been there, and There are no holes in any other stick. I read somewhere on here about dust coming from the hole or foot of the stick, but had non of that either. What do you guys think? Beetle???
Not sure how long the hole has been there, and There are no holes in any other stick. I read somewhere on here about dust coming from the hole or foot of the stick, but had non of that either. What do you guys think? Beetle???