A new low for Lost & Found?

[ChefBoyRG54]

They'll flip for 300 a pack on CHAOS. Those tards will buy anything.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

Was thinking same thing, except the other one where people get raped for 5 mini CCs and the group won't let anyone educate people without booting them. They'll eat these up

Chaos seems like a more educated crowd imo

 

[Iholmes]

Just figured I'd add a little something to this thread as I'm also never going to buy any cigars with a name like "balls deep". As if smoking cigars wasn't phallic enough already. @EricT told me about these the other day and I couldn't believe it was real until he sent me a link

http://fineashcigars.com/shop/lost-and-found-balls-deep-pre-order/

 

[jfettlol]

leave howard alone. caldwell, however, bash as much as you want.

 

[nayslayer]

Bah bah boey! Anyone have more to the caldwell story, im intrested.

 

[Happy Idiot]

I find the labelling/band for Blind Man's Bluff a little crass/distasteful/off-putting.

 

[Mr. McSquirelly]

Caldwell is a cheapjack hustler. I've smoked at least one of each of his creations. They're not terrible cigars, but they're not even close to a good $15 cigar. When compared to Crowned Heads, which are $5-$8 cheaper, it's almost laughable. If you're gonna make a $6-$7 cigar, and then try to hawk it at a 100% mark-up with flashy steampunk hipster branding--well, I'm not bending over. Maybe try hawking that garbage to the suckers at Burning Man.

 

[zeemanb]

My mind is already too far down the road for the branding to make me do a double take, but what I DO find offensive is selling it like "It is what it is...no info on the cigars, they sell out, that's what sells them. They sell out BECAUSE they sell out". I will give credit to it being a genius way to unload surplus cigars that weren't plentiful enough to discount and sell via plain bundles.

 

[bostoneo]

I havn't had any horrible ones, in fact some were pretty darn tasty that were $7 each, and offered flavors I havnt tasted in other cigars. #justsaying #dontjumponbandwagons

 

[Merovius]

We've talked extensively about this company and their rebranded (probably old Camacho) cigars.

Not old Camacho cigars, the blends arent even close. Id like to see this thread where that was discussed "extensively".

 

[Spenny]

Here we go with the L&F discussion again. Haha.

Truth is (and by truth, I mean my opinion) both sides have merit. On one hand, L&F is making available cigars that would otherwise probably never come back to market, or in some cases have never been to market, often times with a fair to significant amount of age. However, these cigars come with zany and sometimes controversial packaging that provides only bare vitals about the cigars contained. For some, this is offensive and cheap, to others it's trendy and interesting-- a disruptive take on an industry steeped in tradition. Other companies have similar ways of selling off sticks stuck in the vault, albeit usually in a quieter style. The annual release of the Fuente Unnamed Reserve comes to mind almost immediately. I think the concern over this will be pretty much moot thanks to the new regulations, hence the recent massive dump of L&F products onto the market.

Regarding the Pepper Cream Chocolate Crush / Camacho Liberty 2007 controversy (PC-Cubed? Okay, not going to catch on), the Camacho Liberty 2007 was released originally at a price of ~$15.00. Five years later, Camacho rereleased it in the limited collectors sets/bags at a price point of ~16.50. Eight years later, L&F allegedly brings it out at ~$14.00 a stick. Names, credit, and conventional packaging aside, that seems like an incredibly fair price on a stick aged close to a decade.

Is the issue that they're bucking the industry's tradition and using flashy, in-your-face names to sell aged cigars to a burgeoning online market that eats this stuff up like candy? Should they be telling us exactly where these sticks come from so that we can try to track down similar sticks? While I can't speak to the Impromptu releases or the original wave of L&F, I know the 'second' wave did have some blend information and I am pretty sure there are a decent number of review sites which have obtained a breakdown for those seeking additional information.

Is it unappetizing to consider that the minds behind L&F are just rereleasing or hunting down sticks stuck in aging rooms before slapping flamboyant "hipster" bundle packaging on them, rather than bringing new products to the marketplace? Quite possibly. Are some of their releases not very tasty? Depends. Are we getting the opportunity to purchase cigars with some good age that we otherwise might not get to try, but will forever be deprived of the knowledge of their origins? Yup.

It's interesting, it's new, it's edgy. Is it good, tasty, and worth your money? Your call.

Cheers,

Spenny

 

[ChuckMejia]

I still don't understand how a brand that sucks gets so much attention.


But to each their own.

 

[Mossome]

Not old Camacho cigars, the blends arent even close. Id like to see this thread where that was discussed "extensively".

http://www.botl.org/threads/caldwell-and-lost-found-cigars-relabeling-old-cigars.80744/#post-1628714
Search button, brother. Search button.

 

[Mr. McSquirelly]

I still don't understand how a brand that sucks gets so much attention.

Marketing, branding, marketing, branding. That's why it's a total turn-off for me. Like most industries, people are in the business for different reasons. And I wish Caldwell all the success in the world with his brand. I really did enjoy EST pyramid. It had really unusual flavors and was a nice medium/mild cigar with notes of citrus and vanilla. But a box is selling right now for $280, and with usual retail mark-up that translates into $16.79 at my local B&M. Was the EST a good cigar? Sure. I found it different and pleasant. Was it a slam-you-on-your-ass $17 cigar, absolutely not! Would I pay that price for another, or go buy a box? Absolutely not.

So it's basically a question of integrity and motives for me. Some guys in this business are cigar makers who want to make good cigars, others are business men looking to make a fast buck. That can be said of most industries in general. Take Huber and that Las Calaveras release (which the FDA has destroyed). We know (and he probably knows, although I will not speak for him because I do not know him personally) that Las Calaveras could easily sell at +$300 a box, given its quality and its limited supply. Yet, I was able to snag the CGs from Famous for $180. Is LC16 46 a better cigar than EST Piramide? Entirely subjective question. To my palate, clearly it is. But to my wallet (which cigars put a severe strain on) LC16 46 is most definitely a better cigar--it's a $100 cheaper!!!

There are consumers in every market looking for the next best thing, the next coolest, the product that only they know about it before everyone else wants it. And so clever marketers will find ways to appeal to that need in consumers. Toy manufacturers are really good at it.

Honestly, if I'm even gonna consider for one second paying +$17 for a cigar, I'm seriously turning my head towards Padron, Davidoff, Tatuaje, Opus. So the real question for me with Caldwell cigars is what am I really paying for? And, honestly, how much did it really cost him to make that cigar and bring it to market? And finally, the most basic question of all: Does price outweigh quality, or does quality outweigh price? With Caldwell, price definitely outweighs quality.

Also, the NC makers also have to compete with Habanos for my palate and wallet. A box of Diplo2s is $195, Boli RCs $180, and RASS around $175. And those are all great, great cigars.

So with flashy new marketing and branding tactics, you can get someone to pay $280 for a box of cigars that probably cost $100-$120 to bring to market. Just not me.

 

[Happy Idiot]

Lars Tetan still make cigars?

 

[Senor Perfecto]

I think the marketing is very "un cigar" to me.

Having smoked all 7 of the recent release, the cigars are also for the most part very un cigar to me.

#didnotlike
#smokedthemall

 

[StogieNinja]

I really did enjoy EST pyramid. ...with usual retail mark-up that translates into $16.79 at my local B&M....Yet, I was able to snag the CGs from Famous for $180. Is LC16 46 a better cigar than EST Piramide? Entirely subjective question. To my palate, clearly it is. But to my wallet (which cigars put a severe strain on) LC16 46 is most definitely a better cigar--it's a $100 cheaper!!!

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, a Caldwell pyramid priced at your B&M to the cheapest vitola of the LC from Crowned Heads... You're comparing apples to oranges there.

 

[bostoneo]

How is FDA end all to Limited to? The price will reflect the cost to bring to market, which hasn't been determined yet as far as I know. I don't think anyone does yet. To many stories not enough facts.

 

[Mr. McSquirelly]

You're comparing apples to oranges there.

I agree. That comparison is a reach on second thought! I guess my point was that quality outweighs price with LC16s. But honestly, California tax does apply to that comparison too. And look, I'm not trying to harm anybody's business or livelihood. I wish Caldwell all the luck in the world. But as consumers, we need to be as honest as possible with each other.

And to be honest, I saw guys here posting pictures in Today's Smoke, I read about it online, and when I was in my B&M the band with that strange bearded profile did intrigue me. The wrapper looked really nice, silky and oily. The foot actually smelled terrific. And so I figured, "What the hell, he's making a bold statement with a $17 cigar. Let's see what all the hype is." It was a novelty, for sure. And a good cigar. But if I could have returned the cigar and gotten my $17 back, I would have. I never have that feeling with Opus X or top-shelf Padrons. I always feel that my money was well spent with those brands after forking over $18-$30 for one. Especially Opus X.

If a friend asked if $280 was worth it for a box of Caldwell cigars, I'd tell him there's better cigars for lower prices out there.

 

[StogieNinja]

I agree. That comparison is a reach on second thought! I guess my point was that quality outweighs price with LC16s.

Eastern Standard in similar vitolas from Small Batch Cigars run about $7 (corona) to $7.50 (robo); so they're in the exactly same ballpark price-wise. Famous has the Coretto (robo) box at just under $180 with the BOTLORG discount. So they're priced essentially the same.

Is the Eastern Standard worth $280? Not to me. But LC16 isn't worth that to me either. $17 is way overpaying for an Eastern Standard, and it would be overpaying for an LC16 as well. Are they both excellent sticks in the sub-$10 range? IMHO, yes. Apples to apples, man.

 

[Mr. McSquirelly]

Are they both excellent sticks in the sub-$10 range?

Absolutely, I would put EST in $6.50-$8 range IMHO. And I paid $17 when they first hit the shelves 2 or 3 years ago and people were buying them up. Maybe the owner gouged slightly due to popularity.