NOT the right tool for the job

[mnelson]

http://www.etoolsrus.com/browse.cfm/4,1728.htm


just saying........

 

[djustice]

http://www.etoolsrus.com/browse.cfm/4,1728.htm


just saying........

Good point but in my opinion totally different, these shoot 22 caliber blanks to help drive nails into concrete, masonry, or steel not drywall.

 

[mnelson]

Good point but in my opinion totally different, these shoot 22 caliber blanks to help drive nails into concrete, masonry, or steel not drywall.

"Ronald Long, fired the shot from the inside of their home after several unsuccessful efforts to punch a hole through the exterior wall using other means."

I don't know about you but i hope people don't put drywall on the outside of there homes.

I am in no way saying that what this guy did wasn't completely retarded....... I am just giving a different point of view.

 

[djustice]

I see the point of view your are addressing but the pictures of the house show siding and my first instinct was that the house probably had siding not brick on the exterior. I've used these stud guns before and the nails have huge flanges to keep them completely passing through.

I guess I may have a bit of a biased point of view myself being a firearms enthusiast and someone who has built houses for years.

 

[Jwrussell]

I agree, I would like to see if he ever recieved any training at all. I would assume a trained person would know to make sure of what is on the other end of his gun, before pulling the trigger. As I said before, commone sense is anything but common.

Dave, I really don't want to get into an argument over this, but whether he had any training whatsoever really has zero bearing on the story. Further, if you read the story, he claims to have been under the impression that he knew where everyone was "at". If my training tells me to be sure of what is behind my target, and I walk around the outside of the house making sure that no one is there, I'm following training. You need common sense to understand that once you walk back inside the house and can no longer see what is on the other side of the wall that you can no longer be sure what is behind your target.

This man was an idiot. Judging by his actions here he shouldn't have access to firearms, heavy equipment, vehicles including a car or truck, poisons, medication stronger than aspirin, or the use of his reproductive organs.

Obviously I go a little overboard there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you can't just throw out the word "training" and think it makes everything better. You want training? Read Rick12String's post 5 posts or so down. That's all the training most reasonable people need.

 

[smokem94]

You are a "gun nut":sarcastic

 

[Jwrussell]

What tipped you off? The "GUN NUT" stitched on the back of my windbreaker, the double size election style pin on my shirt or the neon, blinking baseball hat? :wink:

 

[rick12string]

"Ronald Long, fired the shot from the inside of their home after several unsuccessful efforts to punch a hole through the exterior wall using other means."

I don't know about you but i hope people don't put drywall on the outside of there homes.

I am in no way saying that what this guy did wasn't completely retarded....... I am just giving a different point of view.

The stud gun you linked to is used for driving nails or studs into concrete, masonry or steel as fasteners just as djustice pointed out. They are not made to penetrate through the supporting structure. This ass used a gun to deliberately shoot a hole through a wall fully intending for the bullet to pass completely through it. There are other options. This certainly was not one even to be considered. He is a freakin idiot! There is no other point of view. As the title of the thread states; “Not the right tool for the job”.

 

[dpricenator]

Dave, I really don't want to get into an argument over this, but whether he had any training whatsoever really has zero bearing on the story. Further, if you read the story, he claims to have been under the impression that he knew where everyone was "at". If my training tells me to be sure of what is behind my target, and I walk around the outside of the house making sure that no one is there, I'm following training. You need common sense to understand that once you walk back inside the house and can no longer see what is on the other side of the wall that you can no longer be sure what is behind your target.

This man was an idiot. Judging by his actions here he shouldn't have access to firearms, heavy equipment, vehicles including a car or truck, poisons, medication stronger than aspirin, or the use of his reproductive organs.

Obviously I go a little overboard there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you can't just throw out the word "training" and think it makes everything better. You want training? Read Rick12String's post 5 posts or so down. That's all the training most reasonable people need.

How many time do you see me disagree with you? I was never agruing. I agree. Dude was an idiot.

My point was that trained people tend to make less stupid mistakes, than untrained.
example;
I know how to ride a dirt bike, but have never been to class to teach me how to ride on the street. Can I make it to work on a motorcycle? probably. That doesn't mean I am trained as to how to ride on the street. Between me and Wade or any other regular licensed motorcycle rider, who is more likely to lay it down or be in an accident?

Same goes for SCUBA, rock climbing, etc. A trined individual is going to make less mistakes and be less likely to hurt them selves or others than someone who isn't.

 

[rick12string]

How many time do you see me disagree with you? I was never agruing. I agree. Dude was an idiot.

My point was that trained people tend to make less stupid mistakes, than untrained.
example;
I know how to ride a dirt bike, but have never been to class to teach me how to ride on the street. Can I make it to work on a motorcycle? probably. That doesn't mean I am trained as to how to ride on the street. Between me and Wade or any other regular licensed motorcycle rider, who is more likely to lay it down or be in an accident?

Same goes for SCUBA, rock climbing, etc. A trined individual is going to make less mistakes and be less likely to hurt them selves or others than someone who isn't.

But Dave, if you wanted to put a new door in the back of you house you wouldn’t drive your dirt bike through the wall to start the hole would you?

Just teasing.

 

[Jwrussell]

How many time do you see me disagree with you? I was never agruing.

I know, I just didn't want you to think I was trying to start an argument with you. Just a discussion with differing views I guess...

My point was that trained people tend to make less stupid mistakes, than untrained.
example;
I know how to ride a dirt bike, but have never been to class to teach me how to ride on the street. Can I make it to work on a motorcycle? probably. That doesn't mean I am trained as to how to ride on the street. Between me and Wade or any other regular licensed motorcycle rider, who is more likely to lay it down or be in an accident?

Same goes for SCUBA, rock climbing, etc. A trined individual is going to make less mistakes and be less likely to hurt them selves or others than someone who isn't.

I agree, but for all of those things we are talking about technical training. From the information we have, this guy was obviously technically proficient. He didn't have any trouble operating the firearm, he used it in an unsafe manner.

It's kind of like one of the main tests for determining negligence: what would an ordinary and reasonably prudent person do? An ordinary and reasonbly prudent person doesn't fire a freaking firearm through a wall because they want to punch a whole through it for cable! An ordinary and reasonably prudent person realizes that this is irrational and dangerous behavior. An ordinary and reasonably prudent person goes and picks up a freaking drill!

The most important part of any firearm training deals with the ethical and moral responsibilities of wielding such an instrument. And those four rules that were posted by Rick are exactly what is covered in such training.

All of that being said, let's say we institute formal training for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm. You have to sit through a 30-60 minute training class where firearms safety is covered in detail. Upon completion you are given an official card that shows you have attended such training. Will something like this really have an affect on people like this?

 

[dpricenator]

I know, I just didn't want you to think I was trying to start an argument with you. Just a discussion with differing views I guess...


Will something like this really have an affect on people like this?

No, there will always be idiots. I guess my gun training lasted alot longer than 60 minutes, as i was raise around firearms from a young age. They were part of daily life where we lived.

I have to argue the training point alot out here in CA because we inevitably have Bleeding heart friends who just don't understand why or how i could have a gun in a house with kids. I answer that my gun is locked in a safe has a trigger lock on it, and I know what the "F" I am doing.
I shared a room with my cousin and brother that had 5 rifles and 6 handguns on the wall, with ammo available. Do i think that is right? Eh, We knew to repsect guns and they were not for play. My kids will not grow up like that, but they will know how to shot and clean and repect firearms. I guess I argue a similar philosophy as yours, but with really misinformed people in an county where most guns are owned by gangbangers. Everyone out here stops breathing if they here I have a gun. Especially when I tell them it's in my desk drawer.:hysterica ok it's not in the drawer at work , but you should see the faces of the receptionists when i told them that.:stretchgr

 

[CWS]

Back when I took the FBI small arms training the instructor told us something that really stuck. The one and only dangerous thing about a handgun is the idiot pulling the trigger. This guy fits the bill.

 

[WhiteLightning]

Even if this guy's family was in the house where did he think the bullet was going to go? I'm not a gun person but I wouldn't have thought a .22 would not be able to go through a wall and kill someone. He even fired a second time. Something doesn't seem right with this picture.

 

[Jwrussell]

No, there will always be idiots. I guess my gun training lasted alot longer than 60 minutes, as i was raise around firearms from a young age. They were part of daily life where we lived.

I have to argue the training point alot out here in CA because we inevitably have Bleeding heart friends who just don't understand why or how i could have a gun in a house with kids. I answer that my gun is locked in a safe has a trigger lock on it, and I know what the "F" I am doing.
I shared a room with my cousin and brother that had 5 rifles and 6 handguns on the wall, with ammo available. Do i think that is right? Eh, We knew to repsect guns and they were not for play. My kids will not grow up like that, but they will know how to shot and clean and repect firearms. I guess I argue a similar philosophy as yours, but with really misinformed people in an county where most guns are owned by gangbangers. Everyone out here stops breathing if they here I have a gun. Especially when I tell them it's in my desk drawer.:hysterica ok it's not in the drawer at work , but you should see the faces of the receptionists when i told them that.:stretchgr

I hear you Dave. And here I'll REALLY brand myself as a gun-nut. This is one of the very reasons I refuse to ever go back to New Jersey or live in CA. Oh yeah, and the fact that CA is going to fall off into the ocean one of these days. :wink: (You should hear my Mom yell when I say that!)

 

[Coolhand]

Deepwater? Mo' like Shallow Genepool, am I right?

 

[blessednxs65]

I read this the other day and did not know whether to laugh or cry.