A brief Truth in Cigars

[tatuaje]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

From what I know and what I have seen many of the cigars out there are the same. For example,

Many Punch, Hoyo de Monterey, and Sancho Panza domestics are the same cigars just different shades and/or box pressed. Believe it!

Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!

You will notice for example with Tatuaje Miami, many different shades within the line and sizes. I could easily grade all my Miami cigars in one dark Rosado/Oscuro shade and take all the lighter shade ones put another band on them and sell them for a different price and most people would just think it was a different blend. This is just not right or good business. I do not do this and nor will I.

Just some food for thought. Let the feedback commence.

Regards,
Pete

 

[Angry Bill]

Good info there Pete! I knew about the Punch, Hoyo and Sancho Panza domestics. Amazing what some folks will do.

 

[Hendy]

What's up my brotha. I'm sure there will be a lot of chin itching on that one. As for me, it's experiment time. Thanks for the insight.

 

[tatuaje]

What's up my brotha. I'm sure there will be a lot of chin itching on that one. As for me, it's experiment time. Thanks for the insight.

Scott, Good to hear you got back safe. Good hanging with you. I still can't believe you came so far. Crazy!
I went out the next day and got a new Tattoo in Gary Indiana at Roy Boy's. That was a fun day.......And then, I had a great event in Chicago that night with a bandage on my arm. LOL!

Remember that a box pressed cigar in a dress box will taste slightly different than the same cigar in a cabinet. Mainly because of the cedar influence.

 

[Craig Mac]

The problem with most big businesses is they concentrate on the "how can we make more money" philosophy. Slightly change small details and release a product as "new and improved" making the customer think they are getting a better product, but in truth it is just better marketing. I am fairly new to the game as far as cigars go(never had a CC), but I'm no spring chicken. In my line of work I have run across many salespeople that will say their product is this and that and why it's better than the next guy, but truth be told I find the least "pushy" salesperson usually has the best product. It certainly is refreshing to know there are people out there that care about putting a quality product out that people will enjoy rather than just something people will buy.

 

[indyrob]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

From what I know and what I have seen many of the cigars out there are the same. For example,

Many Punch, Hoyo de Monterey, and Sancho Panza domestics are the same cigars just different shades and/or box pressed. Believe it!

Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!

You will notice for example with Tatuaje Miami, many different shades within the line and sizes. I could easily grade all my Miami cigars in one dark Rosado/Oscuro shade and take all the lighter shade ones put another band on them and sell them for a different price and most people would just think it was a different blend. This is just not right or good business. I do not do this and nor will I.

Just some food for thought. Let the feedback commence.

Regards,
Pete

That's exactly what my thought was concerning the El T's existance.

We, the Joe 6-Pack, have to maintain a great deal of trust when it comes to dealing with you, the Boutique Guy.

We know what to expect from General, we can set our watch by the consistancy and we never have any complaints about quality. I think that the only difference in the domestic giants are the country of origin. Take Partagas, it has the same blend throught it's classic line, just different sizes to taylor fit it's customer base.

I like MY idea of how you, the Boutique Guy, have been dealing with small batch productions.

El Triunfadore - Limited for a good reason, but it seems that it "could" be an annual release.
Noella Reserva - (Bring it back....I really hate to keep up this bad attitude I have against you...) Limited wrapper and limited release.

Tatuaje Reserve - Limited for a reason and limited for the right reason.

I guess what I'm saying is we sorta trust what you are doing by keeping a steady supply of consistant cigars available to us and when you don't have enough supply of something, you don't push it and try to keep it coming year after year ( That's why I understand why there isn't anymore noella reservas, but it doesn't make it easier).

It's cool that you are upfront with your product Pete, it really speaks volumes for what you do and care about.

 

[indyrob]

Scott, Good to hear you got back safe. Good hanging with you. I still can't believe you came so far. Crazy!
I went out the next day and got a new Tattoo in Gary Indiana at Roy Boy's. That was a fun day.......And then, I had a great event in Chicago that night with a bandage on my arm. LOL!

Remember that a box pressed cigar in a dress box will taste slightly different than the same cigar in a cabinet. Mainly because of the cedar influence.

Won't it taste different because the box pressed cigar has LESS filler in it. If it didn't, you could't smoke it after the slight box squeeze.

 

[uncelnino]

It is not a stretch for me to believe this. I think this is a catalyst for the success of an original cigar and why Tatuaje, El Cab, La Riq, etc that actually have different flavor profiles are doing so well. Illusione is another brand that comes to mind, and I am also a big fan of La Flor. Maybe this is why the so called "boutique" cigars are succeeding as their originality is such a departure from the cloned profiles of many others. I made it a point when I started smoking cigars to smoke as many vitolas, brands, wrappers and ages so that i could experience the variety of flavors, or lack thereof, and define what suited me best. While doing this, i found that the "older" brands or "traditional" or whatever descriptor you want to give it all seemed to taste very much alike. I am talking Hoyo De Monterrey, Punch, Romeo y Julieta, and to a certain degree, Montecristo. I have not smoked many Sancho Panzas, but based on the few i have had that is just fine. What I am getting at is that coming in as a new smoker I experienced a lull where i really started wondering where the passion for cigars came from. Everything seemed to be the same and without variety for comparison it is almost like being tasteless. Thank god i hung in there and tried cigars like the Tats, Illusione, La Flor, Kelner stuff, Pepin stuff and was introduced to the intricacies of tobacco and its blending. I am not experienced enough with CC's yet to be able to comment, but i can say that the CC's I have smoked, with the exception of the Partagas Serie D No. 4, have not distinguished themselves as being any better than NC's. As a matter of fact, I can say based on my experiences that i prefer Nicaraguan tobacco over Cuban. I am sure many will argue that i just haven't sampled enough, or that Cubans aren't what they used to be, truth be told, i am going to spend my money on a great Pete Johnson stick rather than pay the extra costs and take the risks associated with CC's. You might stumble upon a fairly decent stash of CC's that are aging in my humidor, but I think this discussion is focused more on the cigars that we would smoke regularly.

I have often wondered about the practice of using different shades as different blends. There have been too many times when a new line will release and taste just the same as its predecessors. I think the new Hoyo De Monterrey Excalibur Legend is the regular Excalibur soaked in salt water.

What this all boils down to is that I personally don't even consider the Punch, R y J, H d M, etc when i walk into a humidor. These cigars are sustained by name recognition and familiarity. If Sancho Panza was released as a new brand presently, IMHO, it would go belly up. Smokers are more tuned in to their palletes and the desire for some complexity than they once were. I think the average cigar smoker today is much more knowledgeable about tobacco, blending, wrappers, and the complicated and time consuming process of producing cigars. To me this is a good thing. Keep challenging the producers to come up with something original or refined and you keep getting brands truly dedicated to the artistry and beauty of the cigar.

I think this got way off topic as I rambled on, sorry.

 

[indyrob]

I think this got way off topic as I rambled on, sorry.

No worse than I did Dave...but the point was made and I got it.

 

[tatuaje]

Won't it taste different because the box pressed cigar has LESS filler in it. If it didn't, you could't smoke it after the slight box squeeze.

Normally a slight box press does not need less filler. A normal round cigar can have a slight press put on it without any draw problems.......

 

[uncelnino]

Rob, you are my brother from another mother, i knew you would get it, its funny, your post was not up when i started writing mine but i think we had some of the same ideas in mind. I hope there will be more responses on this thread, this is a good topic.

 

[uncelnino]

Believe it or not, I was unaware of the existence of a Noella Reserva until your post Rob. I now have another quest. When were these released and how limited were they?

 

[tatuaje]

Believe it or not, I was unaware of the existence of a Noella Reserva until your post Rob. I now have another quest. When were these released and how limited were they?

If I can remember, i will send one of those also when I send Hal's package......

 

[indyrob]

Normally a slight box press does not need less filler. A normal round cigar can have a slight press put on it without any draw problems.......

Yeah, I was thinking of an extreme press, like Litto's Factory Press. I caught it after I posted it. I asked Dan about it too, but that was before I saw how you got the press on the La Riqueza, it's really a "box press" instead of the squeeze.

 

[uncelnino]

If I can remember, i will send one of those also when I send Hal's package......

You are unbelievable Pete. If I had any idea how to thank you appropriately I would do it immediately. That would be two sticks you are giving me that are (had i known of the noella reserva's existence) in my top ten cigar wish list. At this rate i would have that thing knocked out in no time. I called Hal to tell him about the scoop from earlier, he, as always, was happy to be well informed about his favorite sticks, I think he was a bit surprised by the volado. On another note, he is beginning do get suspicious, it is hard to explain why Dion would send a package to me at the Empire Cigars address. Thank god it got busy and i was able to sneak out and avoid the interrogation. Thanks again.

 

[indyrob]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

From what I know and what I have seen many of the cigars out there are the same. For example,



Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!


Just some food for thought. Let the feedback commence.

Regards,
Pete

I believe you're right on the Cuban cigar Industry and I think it was when all the factories got modernized the cigars lost a lot of unique properties and became washed out in regards to flavor.

Cuba, from what I've heard, has been trying to create a strain that will create a cigar that is "ready to smoke now" as opposed to something awesome like the Sancti-Spritus 96 that took a little more time or even better, Cabaiguan-72 which I've heard from MRN is one of the best strains smoking today.

There are inherant flavor profiles that you can't mistake though, a RAG will never taste like Lusi and a Lusi will never taste like a Hoyo DC.
As for the remainder of the line..sure, I'll say that the regular line of any marce "could" be the same cigar as another n the line, but it's not as widespread as the industry as a whole is just working with a shitload of "bunched blanks".

 

[Soundwave13]

Dave - I completely agree with your rant. Now I'm envious of your good fortune - but I have the opinion that, by all appearances - you deserve it.

Pete - this is the kinda stuff that brings loyalty. Maybe that's an idea for a new line:
El Liel (maybe instead of Editione Limitada)

Anyway - I've often wondered about the point you originally made. I'll have to keep tasting to find out for myself though!

 

[uncelnino]

Dave - I completely agree with your rant. Now I'm envious of your good fortune - but I have the opinion that, by all appearances - you deserve it.

Pete - this is the kinda stuff that brings loyalty. Maybe that's an idea for a new line:
El Liel (maybe instead of Editione Limitada)

Anyway - I've often wondered about the point you originally made. I'll have to keep tasting to find out for myself though!

I will spare you the two pages it would take to describe to you all that Pete has done for me in the last week and a half, but rest assured i do not deserve it. I am glad you could even understand my rant let alone agree with it, maybe i do make sense every once in a while I am consumed by my love of cigars and have strong feelings about the industry and its quality standards. I have no doubts that Pete will steer this industry in the direction it needs to go. I will be loyal to Pete's products until the day I spark my last stick.

 

[tubaman]

Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!

I wonder if you could give us the information that leads you to make this statement. I for one don't believe it because the shade of a wrapper isn't going to account for such drastic differences between cigars such as Bolivar and just about anything else as one example. There is no way that wrapper shade can account for the taste difference between and Monte 2, and Upmann 2, a Dip 2 or a Boli BBF. And I have seen wide differences in wrapper shade from box to box within the same brand on boxes with the same box code. This school of thought about wrapper shades being the basis for sorting the same cigar into different brands doesn't have any basis in fact as far as I know. I'm certainly not the all knowing font of knowledge so if you have specific information regarding this I for one would love to have more in depth information.

 

[smokinghole]

This reinforces my suspicions that the big cigar companies do this. I've felt for a while that many cigars either tasted the same or very very similar. This has driven me to pretty much smoke small boutique brands only. I like to have a variety of different cigars around and this seems to be the best way for me to get that variety. Not through the big conglomerate that makes millions of cigars in a year.