A brief Truth in Cigars

[tatuaje]

One thing that I find interesting is how much latitude we give cuban cigars. We can buy a box of Partagas Lusi's and (God forbid this...) it might be lackluster, but you'll buy another box eventually. If the same was said about a non-cuban cigar I think the general consensus is it will not be bought again.

It's got to be hell trying to have a subsidized industry and try to maintain consistancy as well. The taxing body says "we need more output" but the craft can only extend itself so far before it becomes comprimised. I think that might be the gist of what Pete was saying; IF the blue collar vitolas were made as generic as possible that would leave the higher quality yeild to go towards the flagship vitolas and no one would be the wiser.

You nailed it Rob.........

I must say that not every cigar is perfect. We struggle with quality all the time and so does everyone else. The Cubans are not the only ones that have problems from time to time.

 

[CWS]

Dave, try buying cigars from Cuba that they don't make many size copies of. The problem is that they have discontinued all the one of a kinds down there.

Indy, are they still making Cazi's????

I guess some new stuff would be RJ petit belicoso, Monte Petit Edmundo, Hoyo Petit Robusto, etc. There's more but I am typing on my phone.
Ask Indy, I know he has a big list for you.

They still make cazadores. They are still spectacular and strong. I have seen good ones and great ones.

 

[Anthem]

The quality control and consistency on NC is there. ROb nailed the point spot on. The government, which owns the cigar industry, tells the producers to produce more. When that happens, Quality control and consistency will be dropped to increase production.

It all comes down to this. At one point in time, CC's were the bomb! Not anymore. There are many NC that are as good or even better. Yeah I know, this is just my opinion. But, I and many others believe this. Manufacturers like Pete, Lito, Dion, DPG, The Funetes, etc, make cigars in the old ways trying to create flavors/blends that are incredible. It is working.

We all can't wait for the embargo to end. Will it make the CC's more or less expensive, since they will be readily available. I say more at first, but then they will take a hit in price.

Just more of my 2 cents.

I totally agree with Bill's point. It is like saying that only the German's make good beer and only France makes good wine.

Do we really believe that there is going to be that much diffrence in high quality cc and nc's?

With guys whom Bill mentioned at the helm of the buisness, we should be grateful that we do not need to buy cc's (risking ourselves expecailly to overwhelimg amounts of fakes) to experience great smoking.

The boutique brand is the future of the true cigar lover.

 

[uncelnino]

Thanks Chuck.. there is such an overflow of information i have had to process in the last 24 hours I am not sure what is up versus down. It's a good thing I am passionate about cigars because every time I think I am beginning to get an overall grasp of things I stumble onto something else that shows how little I really know. It is a constant quest for information, desire to state opinion, and struggle to obtain that stick that is just out of reach. Couple that with the satisfaction of finally putting flame to that elusive stick and you have created a recipe that inspires passion. When you step back and think about all the time and energy that has been consumed, in order for you to put flame to a leaf, incredible. This is such a fantastic process, i almost have goosebumps....

Sorry to go philosophical, but that just kind of typed itself.

Went off on a rant again, but that pretty much sums up why I am here.

 

[CSMoFo]

Many Punch, Hoyo de Monterey, and Sancho Panza domestics are the same cigars just different shades and/or box pressed. Believe it!

Didn´t the advent of the COSUEGRAS expose that to us ?

 

[indyrob]

Didn´t the advent of the COSUEGRAS expose that to us ?

I think the original Consuegra from Cuba was the exact same concept; sell seconds from all the factories as a branded cigar.

 

[Donk]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

Regards,
Pete

I might juwst be slow here, Is this the "Pete" I think it is?

 

[uncelnino]

Yes!!!

 

[Donk]

you mean the man, huh. I would like to have talked to him.

 

[uncelnino]

He will be back on I hope. He was very active and even started some threads yesterday including giving us some "scoop" on the blend of the El Triunfador Lancero.

 

[Volusianator]

I went out the next day and got a new Tattoo in Gary Indiana at Roy Boy's.

You have a tattoo? Sweet! :hysterica

 

[tubaman]

I totally agree with Bill's point. It is like saying that only the German's make good beer and only France makes good wine.

Do we really believe that there is going to be that much diffrence in high quality cc and nc's?

With guys whom Bill mentioned at the helm of the buisness, we should be grateful that we do not need to buy cc's (risking ourselves expecailly to overwhelimg amounts of fakes) to experience great smoking.

The boutique brand is the future of the true cigar lover.

Yes, but the best ports are still from Portugal even though there are good Australian ports. And the best champagne is still made in France even though there are good ones from other countries. The gap in flavor, to me, from cc's to nc's is closer than ever, but the best cigars overall, to me, are made in Cuba. That doesn't mean all others suck, and you may prefer nc's to cc's. That's a matter of personal choice. But for me there is still a noticable difference. For you that may not be a good difference, but a difference is there. I have to say I've made a point to try some new cigars lately and have been very suprised with the quality. (Loved the La Riqueza I smoked the other day on CWS reccomendation) But I haven't found anything that will move any of my favs out of my top five cigars. Nobody needs to experience cuban cigars to experience a great cigar, but it is undeniably important to making an informed decision about which is better and which you prefer.

As for fakes, that is why it is extremely important to know your vendor and develop a close relationship. Too many guys use whatever the latest, cheapest vendor they can find is and get burned. That's not a good move. The vendor that I use most I trust implicitly and if I've ever received a fake cigar from them, it was a great fake then.

 

[smokinafuente]

Yes, but the best ports are still from Portugal even though there are good Australian ports. And the best champagne is still made in France even though there are good ones from other countries. The gap in flavor, to me, from cc's to nc's is closer than ever, but the best cigars overall, to me, are made in Cuba. That doesn't mean all others suck, and you may prefer nc's to cc's. That's a matter of personal choice. But for me there is still a noticable difference. For you that may not be a good difference, but a difference is there. I have to say I've made a point to try some new cigars lately and have been very suprised with the quality. (Loved the La Riqueza I smoked the other day on CWS reccomendation) But I haven't found anything that will move any of my favs out of my top five cigars. Nobody needs to experience cuban cigars to experience a great cigar, but it is undeniably important to making an informed decision about which is better and which you prefer.

As for fakes, that is why it is extremely important to know your vendor and develop a close relationship. Too many guys use whatever the latest, cheapest vendor they can find is and get burned. That's not a good move. The vendor that I use most I trust implicitly and if I've ever received a fake cigar from them, it was a great fake then.

Well said!


I guess I might have to track down some of these tattoos and see what the fuss is about. Can't be to bad with the loyal following they have here.

 

[Donk]

I completely agree with tubaman, honestly there is no substitute for a great cuban cigar. But in saying that, that is what I love about this lifestyle, is that everyone has different tastes and ideas on what they would call a great cigar. Some say Opus, or Padron, or a Cohiba from Cuba. And you know what none of them are wrong.

 

[Electric Sheep]

There's some straight talk going on in this thread. I love it!

Thanks, Pete.

 

[tatuaje]

I agree also. When Cubans are ON they are on fire.......Why do you think I want to emulate them so much.

I don't want to recreate the wheel, Just copy it better than everyone else........

 

[Moro]

Yes, but the best ports are still from Portugal even though there are good Australian ports. And the best champagne is still made in France even though there are good ones from other countries. The gap in flavor, to me, from cc's to nc's is closer than ever, but the best cigars overall, to me, are made in Cuba. That doesn't mean all others suck, and you may prefer nc's to cc's. That's a matter of personal choice. But for me there is still a noticable difference. For you that may not be a good difference, but a difference is there. I have to say I've made a point to try some new cigars lately and have been very suprised with the quality. (Loved the La Riqueza I smoked the other day on CWS reccomendation) But I haven't found anything that will move any of my favs out of my top five cigars. Nobody needs to experience cuban cigars to experience a great cigar, but it is undeniably important to making an informed decision about which is better and which you prefer.

As for fakes, that is why it is extremely important to know your vendor and develop a close relationship. Too many guys use whatever the latest, cheapest vendor they can find is and get burned. That's not a good move. The vendor that I use most I trust implicitly and if I've ever received a fake cigar from them, it was a great fake then.

Wise words here. (Only one thing, Port has to be portuguese (when made elsewhere it's port-type wine; "origin's denomination" (not sure that's how ye say it in English)), as Champagne must be from Champagne, France). And as far as fakes go; well, we just need to be sharper than counterfitters. Be sure to know how to distinguish reals from fakes and whenever hesitatious, ask yer BOTLs! (Loving this thread)

 

[vudu9]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

From what I know and what I have seen many of the cigars out there are the same. For example,

Many Punch, Hoyo de Monterey, and Sancho Panza domestics are the same cigars just different shades and/or box pressed. Believe it!

Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!

You will notice for example with Tatuaje Miami, many different shades within the line and sizes. I could easily grade all my Miami cigars in one dark Rosado/Oscuro shade and take all the lighter shade ones put another band on them and sell them for a different price and most people would just think it was a different blend. This is just not right or good business. I do not do this and nor will I.

Just some food for thought. Let the feedback commence.

Regards,
Pete

Word.

 

[Anthem]

Yes, but the best ports are still from Portugal even though there are good Australian ports. And the best champagne is still made in France even though there are good ones from other countries. The gap in flavor, to me, from cc's to nc's is closer than ever, but the best cigars overall, to me, are made in Cuba. That doesn't mean all others suck, and you may prefer nc's to cc's. That's a matter of personal choice. But for me there is still a noticable difference. For you that may not be a good difference, but a difference is there. I have to say I've made a point to try some new cigars lately and have been very suprised with the quality. (Loved the La Riqueza I smoked the other day on CWS reccomendation) But I haven't found anything that will move any of my favs out of my top five cigars. Nobody needs to experience cuban cigars to experience a great cigar, but it is undeniably important to making an informed decision about which is better and which you prefer.

As for fakes, that is why it is extremely important to know your vendor and develop a close relationship. Too many guys use whatever the latest, cheapest vendor they can find is and get burned. That's not a good move. The vendor that I use most I trust implicitly and if I've ever received a fake cigar from them, it was a great fake then.

Tuba,

You bring wise words to the table sir, and I thank you for them.

Since taste is subjective, and we as human's are so varried in our tastes, I think in retrospect to my original post that some of us like apples and some oranges.

I have probably smoked 20 Cuban's in my life. I have probably seen or been given over 100 fakes. Protocal tells me to never be a jerk when someone gifts me something. So when I see a fake I shut my mouth and say thank you unlesss I am asked my opnion.

Now, having said all of this, it is obvious to me also that I have not smoked as many cubans as many of my brothers here and certainly not as many as Tuba or Pete. I am a relatively young smoker in that sense. Thus, it is only fair to give way to people who have the experience.

So all of this is to say that Tuba you make a great point. If for no other reason then we can argue about whether we like Kentucky Whiskey or Scotch best; but more important we can both be right.

 

[uncelnino]

Wow, we have also got Dion posting now. What a great thread, and welcome Dion.