A brief Truth in Cigars

[dpricenator]

Great thread.. I can't believe i missed ll of this over the weekend. I'm sure i would have found something to say, but since you guys said it all, I'll just sit back and read.

Cigars are like women. All of them different, but they all have some quality here or there that I like. And then there are those that I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole.

 

[Electric Sheep]

....we can argue about whether we like Kentucky Whiskey or Scotch best; but more important we can both be right.

Hmm....

I like cheap bourbon and Kentucky whiskey, but I don't like cheap scotch. Is that odd?

I do, however, *LOVE* a nice Islay scotch.

I can't say that I love any Kentucky whiskey.

 

[Anthem]

Hmm....


I can't say that I love any Kentucky whiskey.

We should hang out. I will bring the Bourbon. :glassesgr

 

[Havanaaddict]

Sorry guys, I should have said that I have seen it on my last trip down there. In the middle of the island where Cohibas are not made, the factory was grading Marevas and placing them into different boxes. Siglo II, Monte, etc.

Pete how long ago where you there and where were you? I have never see this!!! Maybe I am not understanding you right "You are saying that they are putting Siglo IIs and monte #4 in the same box? If I could not tell the dif between a sig II and a mont 4 I would quite smoking :bouncetau
I sat down last night and smoked a 01' Punch churchill & 01' SLR churchill and a 01' Hoyo churchill and they all tasted way dif.

 

[Headbanger]

I agree also. When Cubans are ON they are on fire.......Why do you think I want to emulate them so much.

I don't want to recreate the wheel, Just copy it better than everyone else........

There can not be a more honest quote out there than that one right there. Thank you for not trying to BS and sugar coat things Pete.

 

[Angry Bill]

Woohoo Steve is back!!!

 

[Headbanger]

Okay guys, believe what you may but I want to make points about some cigars out there.

Many Cuban cigars today (not old old ones) are the same just different shades and/or box pressed. I know I will hear shit for this one but Believe It! It's True!

Just some food for thought. Let the feedback commence.

Regards,
Pete

Thanks again for sharing Pete. I started to write a bunch of things that I believe are truth or half truth and deleted it all. But the fact is since Habanos took over and now oversees probably 95% of the tobacco that Cuba produces for export, their main emphasis is on being more profitable and more consistent in quality control. The consolidation that has happened in the last decade, the upgrades in the factories, and the new freeze chambers to kill the beetles shows in the lack of variety there once was.

Could Habanos use the same tobacco fields for different brands? Sure they can. But do they have the same exact blends but put different bands on them? I doubt any of us have clue to that answer.

 

[Moro]

Thanks again for sharing Pete. I started to write a bunch of things that I believe are truth or half truth and deleted it all. But the fact is since Habanos took over and now oversees probably 95% of the tobacco that Cuba produces for export, their main emphasis is on being more profitable and more consistent in quality control. The consolidation that has happened in the last decade, the upgrades in the factories, and the new freeze chambers to kill the beetles shows in the lack of variety there once was.

Could Habanos use the same tobacco fields for different brands? Sure they can. But do they have the same exact blends but put different bands on them? I doubt any of us have clue to that answer.

Hear hear. Beeing that especially the fermentation process is guarded so well, we shall have a tough time finding out the truth in that statement.

 

[tubaman]

Pete how long ago where you there and where were you? I have never see this!!! Maybe I am not understanding you right "You are saying that they are putting Siglo IIs and monte #4 in the same box? If I could not tell the dif between a sig II and a mont 4 I would quite smoking :bouncetau
I sat down last night and smoked a 01' Punch churchill & 01' SLR churchill and a 01' Hoyo churchill and they all tasted way dif.

I think what he is saying is that the same blended cigars are being sorted by wrapper shade. Lighter shades Montes, darker shades Cohibas (just as an example)

I stand by my earlier comment that wrapper shade cannot account for such wide variation in flavor. Yes, wrappers have a significant effect on the flavor of a cigar, but not enough to account for the very different flavors of Montes and Cohibas. I don't buy it, but Pete says he saw this with his own eyes.

 

[Tegu]

Sorry guys, I should have said that I have seen it on my last trip down there. In the middle of the island where Cohibas are not made, the factory was grading Marevas and placing them into different boxes. Siglo II, Monte, etc.

This thread has inspired me to have my wife break out a sig II and a monte 4 tonight take of the bands and I will give them a try next to each other and see if I can pick the cohiba. I guess you would need a couple boxes with the same code to be accurate, and I am sure mine are atleast a year apart, so it wont be very scientific, but still interesting.

I will post the results of this experiment 2morrow.

 

[jmatkins]

Well for the most part I still could not tell the diffrence between a Monte, or Siglo II, I just do not have the palate to tell the diffrences. But I do know what I have enjoyed over the years and what I have not. I just keep smoking waht I love. Most evrything I can get my hands on. And thanks for the info Pete.

 

[indyrob]

I'm not entirely sure of Pete's mindest or what exactly he was talking about, but I do think that he was refering more towards the blue collar vitolas and not the flagship lines of each respective marca.

Each cigar would have a generic filler blend and then wrapped up with a specific leaf to give it a signature profile.

 

[Anthem]

I'm not entirely sure of Pete's mindest or what exactly he was talking about, but I do think that he was refering more towards the blue collar vitolas and not the flagship lines of each respective marca.

Each cigar would have a generic filler blend and then wrapped up with a specific leaf to give it a signature profile.

This also is the take I have on it...if anyone cares :agreesmil

 

[Tegu]

This thread has inspired me to have my wife break out a sig II and a monte 4 tonight take of the bands and I will give them a try next to each other and see if I can pick the cohiba. I guess you would need a couple boxes with the same code to be accurate, and I am sure mine are atleast a year apart, so it wont be very scientific, but still interesting.

I will post the results of this experiment 2morrow.

Well I did this expirement last night, and I was able to pick out the cohiba, probably just luck, but I did like it better, and I must say these two sticks taste different. Keep in mind I am no tasting expert, if you gave me 10 sticks and said pick out the the cuban, or pick out the cohiba by taste, I do not think I could do it.

The monte was from '04, and the cohiba was from '05, so the extra age could have been the difference I am not sure, but if you gave me these 2 sticks and told me they were the same blend just packaged in different boxes, with slightly different shades of wrapper I would say no way.

 

[Tegu]

I'm not entirely sure of Pete's mindest or what exactly he was talking about, but I do think that he was refering more towards the blue collar vitolas and not the flagship lines of each respective marca.

Each cigar would have a generic filler blend and then wrapped up with a specific leaf to give it a signature profile.

Maybe you are right, I though he was saying that a monte cristo and a cohiba of the same size are the same blend, same wrapper, just a slightly different color and put in different boxes.

 

[Mitch]

Just to reinforce what Pete said, I had a chance to talk with Carlos Torano last Spring and he told me that the exact same cigar he made with three different bands was evaluated by CA with two scoring high eighties and one over ninety. I'm not sure if they were different shades or even a different size, but what he said was "the same cigar". In the context of that conversation he made it clear that the same blend went to maket with different bands from different companies.

 

[uncelnino]

Just to reinforce what Pete said, I had a chance to talk with Carlos Torano last Spring and he told me that the exact same cigar he made with three different bands was evaluated by CA with two scoring high eighties and one over ninety. I'm not sure if they were different shades or even a different size, but what he said was "the same cigar". In the context of that conversation he made it clear that the same blend went to maket with different bands from different companies.

Seems mighty stupid of Carlos to admit that he is selling the same cigar under three different names. Sure makes me want to run out and snatch up a Torano.

 

[Mitch]

Seems mighty stupid of Carlos to admit that he is selling the same cigar under three different names. Sure makes me want to run out and snatch up a Torano.

Why, If he is making cigars and some get sold under CAO, some under Gurkha and some under his own brand, he just sells more cigars. From a marketing stand point is makes great sense, I work with that industry quite a bit.

Do you buy private label product at the Grocery store? The quality of them is usually equal to or higher than the national brands, but way cheaper. Why, because the Kraft’s and P&G's of the world have huge marketing budgets, do massive advertising and have to put all of that into the cost of goods. You often have the same item in the grocery store, almost side by side and your only real choice is how much you with to pay for packaging, advertising and high low sales promotional planning.

These also represent different customers. The person who wants’ a cheap cigar may not be willing to pay more, so a one brand solution would lose that customer. Likewise the person who is a brand shopper will go for the more prestigious brand and will not buy an equal product, so again you lose the sale.

As for our chat it was really about how CA is all over the place and you can't trust their ratings.

 

[dpricenator]

Why, If he is making cigars and some get sold under CAO, some under Gurkha and some under his own brand, he just sells more cigars. From a marketing stand point is makes great sense, I work with that industry quite a bit.

Do you buy private label product at the Grocery store? The quality of them is usually equal to or higher than the national brands, but way cheaper. Why, because the Kraft’s and P&G's of the world have huge marketing budgets, do massive advertising and have to put all of that into the cost of goods. You often have the same item in the grocery store, almost side by side and your only real choice is how much you with to pay for packaging, advertising and high low sales promotional planning.

These also represent different customers. The person who wants’ a cheap cigar may not be willing to pay more, so a one brand solution would lose that customer. Likewise the person who is a brand shopper will go for the more prestigious brand and will not buy an equal product, so again you lose the sale.

As for our chat it was really about how CA is all over the place and you can't trust their ratings which I believe are true.

I agree with everything here except the last comment. I think CAs reviews are driven by marketing dollars and are biased. however, in general, this is kin to the auto industry as well. Ford and Mercury both made the Taurus, but Mercury's was called the Sable. The Sable had different trim. The mercury was also a tad bit more expensive for exactly the same car.

 

[Mitch]

I agree with everything here except the last comment. I think CAs reviews are driven by marketing dollars and are biased. however, in general, this is kin to the auto industry as well. Ford and Mercury both made the Taurus, but Mercury's was called the Sable. The Sable had different trim. The mercury was also a tad bit more expensive for exactly the same car.

The only thing that CA and I have ever been able to consistantly agree upon is if a cigar sucks the dead bear. I think they have given that rating about three times.