Tatuaje and aging...

[kockroach]

Kockroach,

Yes very similar. Depending on the crop the blend will change. First year 2008 of La Verite is 100% Habano. 2009 edition we will be using Habano, Criollo 98, and Pelo D'oro. Still not sure which one, Habano or Criollo will be the dominate leaf. Pelo D'oro will be a small part of the blend.

Pete

also the blend will be listed in detail on the box every year.

Very interesting approach to the La Verite. I like the sound of it. So with aging these cigars, which all aging occurs after rolling (if I read correctly), then one box could age quite differently than another. It would all depend on how it is stored by the shop and ultimately, by the purchaser.

Ultimately, I could smoke a La Verite from one box, and could possibly have a different experience from another La Verite of a different box from the same year. Is this right?

 

[Craig Mac]

Very interesting approach to the La Verite. I like the sound of it. So with aging these cigars, which all aging occurs after rolling (if I read correctly), then one box could age quite differently than another. It would all depend on how it is stored by the shop and ultimately, by the purchaser.

Ultimately, I could smoke a La Verite from one box, and could possibly have a different experience from another La Verite of a different box from the same year. Is this right?

I think he means more changing from year to year not box to box

 

[SkinsFanLarry]

Kockroach,

Yes very similar. Depending on the crop the blend will change. First year 2008 of La Verite is 100% Habano. 2009 edition we will be using Habano, Criollo 98, and Pelo D'oro. Still not sure which one, Habano or Criollo will be the dominate leaf. Pelo D'oro will be a small part of the blend.

Pete

also the blend will be listed in detail on the box every year.

Maybe this is why it was "not" used in the My Father Le Bijou 1922.

 

[kockroach]

I think he means more changing from year to year not box to box

I know year-to-year will change. However, the leaves are only fermented, not aged prior to rolling. So, that's why I was thinking that from box-to-box within a year's release, there could be subtle differences based on how the box is stored. Wasn't sure if this would come into play more since the tobacco isn't aged first.

Would kind of be like different barrels of wine, or even different bottles of wine from the same vintage.

 

[njstone]

My point is, if a cigar that is made with crude tobacco, there is no amount of age that will help it. This is fact. It all starts with the material. Sometimes fresh the blend has not had enough time to morf together and may not be ready to smoke but when the tobacco is good and clean, you can look ahead and say that they will get better with age.

Like the La Verite, the tobacco is clean and when they are first rolled, they are good but not ready to smoke. They need the age for the blend to do it's thing.

I totally agree, and am starting to be able to tell the difference. You can find well-aged cigars using 2nd class tobacco and they taste decent, and maybe even more to my liking than some fresh cigars with 1st class tobacco--but I'm starting to be able to taste the "clean" quality of that really great tobacco.

I think the Boris is a perfect example in a way. Even back in October you could just tell that the tobacco was exceptionally good quality, even though I didn't get as much flavor as I wanted for the first half of the stick it tasted very "clean". But the 2nd half was just sublime, and because of that I'm sure these will get even better with age (which is almost hard to believe given the 2nd half is so good).

 

[ncstogie]

Thanks for all the information Pete! :thumbsup:

How could anyone not love this forum....BOTL Rocks! :king:

You said it LArry :cjump:

 

[xddco]

One of the best threads I've ever read here....

and I don't think there are too many people that have more or love TATs more than I do....

thanks for all the great info....only makes the experience better.

 

[tubaman]

My point is, if a cigar that is made with crude tobacco, there is no amount of age that will help it. This is fact. It all starts with the material. Sometimes fresh the blend has not had enough time to morf together and may not be ready to smoke but when the tobacco is good and clean, you can look ahead and say that they will get better with age.

Yes, that I agree with totally.

 

[tatuaje]

I know year-to-year will change. However, the leaves are only fermented, not aged prior to rolling. So, that's why I was thinking that from box-to-box within a year's release, there could be subtle differences based on how the box is stored. Wasn't sure if this would come into play more since the tobacco isn't aged first.

Would kind of be like different barrels of wine, or even different bottles of wine from the same vintage.

Aging will come into play a little bit similar to wine. The tobacco is clean and ready to be used but yes it was not aged in bails. The cigars sit for over a year in master cases of 500 in the humidor in Nicaragua which is like barrel aging. When the consumer or retailer gets the finished boxes it will depend on how they store them but this is the same with any cigar. I doubt anyone will notice a difference from box to box from the same year unless someone stores them at 75% and another stores them at 65%. It's a natural product similar to wine and will age differently depending on the conditions it's aged in.

 

[njstone]

Aging will come into play a little bit similar to wine. The tobacco is clean and ready to be used but yes it was not aged in bails. The cigars sit for over a year in master cases of 500 in the humidor in Nicaragua which is like barrel aging. When the consumer or retailer gets the finished boxes it will depend on how they store them but this is the same with any cigar. I doubt anyone will notice a difference from box to box from the same year unless someone stores them at 75% and another stores them at 65%. It's a natural product similar to wine and will age differently depending on the conditions it's aged in.

Good to know. And to follow up with that: what rH do YOU recommend, Pete. I know many of us here tend toward 65%, but I wondered what you'd suggest.

 

[tatuaje]

I like 65% for long term aging but I like a little higher for smoking. Really depends on the wrapper. Some thin wrappers need higher humidity to avoid cracking when smoking. Some thick wrappers need lower just to burn good. That's a pretty general piece of info though.

 

[tandblov]

Interesting Pete, I have found that thin wrappers need less humidity to avoid splitting during smoking. It seems that the higher the humidity, the more swelling and splits occur on those wrappers. It seems to me that higher humidity is better to avoid cracking during transport and being handled.

Personally, I keep my humidor at 64-65%. I find that Nic. tobacco benefits from this level as much as cigars from other origins.

 

[BrooksW]

Out of curiosity, has anyone outside of Tatuaje smoked a La Verite (the expensive one), or are they not considered ready (in terms of final aging) for that yet?

~brooks

 

[Simoun]

Interesting Pete, I have found that thin wrappers need less humidity to avoid splitting during smoking. It seems that the higher the humidity, the more swelling and splits occur on those wrappers.

Just to chime in here––this could be because the humidity where you live/smoke is drastically lower than the humidity in your humidor. Here in Vegas, for instance, there's a ~40 - 45% difference between a humidor with ~65% rh and the ambient rh outdoors (during the day at least)––that sudden shift easily cracks a lot of cigars.

 

[tatuaje]

Tandblov,

Agreed on the humidity levels during shipping but sometimes you need the thin wrappers to have a little more so they can stretch when the cigar expands. If the wrapper is too dry it won't expand easy and most likely cracking will occur.

Ryan, I agree with extreme changes causing problems also.

 

[Treinenwj]

I think I felt my brain grow reading all the info in this thread

 

[tandblov]

Just to chime in here––this could be because the humidity where you live/smoke is drastically lower than the humidity in your humidor. Here in Vegas, for instance, there's a ~40 - 45% difference between a humidor with ~65% rh and the ambient rh outdoors (during the day at least)––that sudden shift easily cracks a lot of cigars.

I doubt that it is it, primarily due the fact I live in the northwest rainforest. Humidity is our speciality! LOL

I base my experience on early don pepin black labels. That wrapper was tasty when it wasn't splitting up on you. I haven't found the same issue with tatuaje.

 

[mcmoyer]

Wow...what a great thread.

 

[Cyrann]

This thread delivers...

...good to hear opinions on aging of all sorts as well as the cedar comment on old school tats. I have taken note of this and will have to do some reorganization when I get home. On a side note, what I would give to smoke a Tainos from 2003 or any Tat from 2003 for that matter. I have never had any Tatuaje's pre-2006 and can only imagine what a treat that would be.