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Need to say this.

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I agree 100%.

I think that many people post just to post and it has nothing of value to add to the threads. I am guilty of this also, but I usually try to be patient and not post right away. If I feel that I can add something to a topic I will throw it up there, but if not I usually just enjoy reading.
 
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I found this place nearly a year and a half ago while I was deployed, and chose it as my only cigar board after hanging out at some other ones that seemed to be mostly full of cigar snobs and guys who wanted to make sure that you knew that they knew more than you. I've found some good buddies here, but have noticed some of the same thing that AB brought up lately. All that said, I just kind of choose to ignore the stuff that I don't want to get involved in, but sometimes it's a little tough not telling some douche-nozzle to lighten up. You nozzles know who you are, so lighten up.....think I'll go see who's hanging out in chat. Peace!
 
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Well said.

I know how this happens as we've seen it happen on a photography forum I help moderate. It's growing pains and during these times just a possible step up of the moderators to hide offending threads, delete them when needed all in the name of keeping the peace and family community. We all don't like to be moderated, but at times we all may need it.

Thanks for the reminder and I'll do my part to mind myself as well.
 

Jwrussell

April '05 BoM
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I have a couple of comments on this topic. First of all, I understand where Bill is coming from. And as someone else has mentioned, there are quite a few 'FOGs' who either no longer visit or don't post nearly as much as they used to. And I don't say this to brag, but I've been around BOTL for quite some time. I love this place. I've been a part of a few boards since I got into the hobby. I've taken breaks from them all. This is the ONE that always brings me back. Always. Some friends have moved on to other places that I used to frequent, and I miss them, but not every board is for every person. I get that. But I hate to think that there are Brothers I'm missing or WILL miss because of something like this. Hell, some of the folks some may see here as institutions I'm just getting to know because of my own absences. I'd hate to miss out on that chance.

As others have mentioned, I don't see quite as much as what I believe Bill is talking about because I just don't bother with those threads. But really, should that be the best way for us to get along in this place? Most who come here and settle do so because this place offers something other places don't. I like to think that something is the atmosphere of acceptance and belonging offered to EVERYONE. There is never going to be 100% agreement in a place with this many members...and really, if there was, who would stay? I call that boring! :wink: But we can all have our own opinions and even disagree with each other pretty strongly while still offering each other respect. Regardless of the topic, there are probably at least 5 different ways to say whatever it is we are trying to convey. Some of those ways are sharper than they need to be or don't offer as much respect as they should. I think we can all take a few moments to try to find one of the other 4 ways to make our point.

So if you remember being new, and you remember feeling a sigh of relief when you found this place and settled in, try to hold that thought when you are getting ready to post something that might be controversial.



A side note and caveat: we have a Debate Room as a sub-forum. Things get heated in that room and differing opinions are the norm and expected. You need to be able to let things roll off in that room and if anyone is reading this thread thinking about that sub-forum, there is a simple way to stop seeing those posts: unsubscribe. It's an opt-in room, you don't have to be a part of it. There is probably always room for a tad bit more respect in there as well, but that being said, I think we do a darned good job of keeping things BOTL-worthy in that room, especially when compared to others I've been involved in.
 
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As I an new to this forum, I am not aware of the growing amount of "tension" being mentioned but I have just recently met with a good number of you at the SoCal Beach Herf, AB being one of the BOTL present. I must say that I was blown away at the cameraderie and the generosity present.
Maybe as recently arrived as I am, I've not "tripped upon" those areas, if that is the case, then I will refrain from said areas and concentrate on meeting as many of you as possible.
Respectfully,
HafaDaiBoi
 

alwaysup81

Always Up Alliance
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Thanks for the post. I haven't experienced or came across any rudeness, most likely because I'm new here. I log on everyday and been reading alot to gain more knowledge. We need all you experienced brothers so we can grow and learn. Stay for a while, I hope all the rude people who read this will either smarten up or :riflefirejust go away.
 

Zedman05

Fiend4theLeaf
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Maybe I don't go to the controversial threads because I really have no idea what Bill is seeing. I love this place, it is like my personal sanctuary from every-day life. I do not delve into the hot threads, nor do I go into political threads either as I know this is just a dead end topic that no-one can completely agree on. To be honest, the first time I have ever read anything controversial was last night in the post about Osama's death. I think that pretty much everyone here has kept it clean and a community environment, and that is why I check in as many times a day as I do.
BOTL is awsome in my opinion, and I don't feel the same way as Bill...but I am not a FOG though, so maybe things have changed.
 
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Yes i definatly see were Bill is coming from. I've been here just under 2 years and I've seen the change as well. When i first came here remember seeing a lot more reviews, and helpful posts. Now the debate room gets heated at times but that is to be expected but sadly sometimes it spills out into the other forums. I used to read every post but now i find myself picking and choosing which threads to read. It is sad that some of the FOG's aren't as active but these things happen when a site grows.

Guess it's up to us veterans to try to turn the tide. Think if we all make this commitment we can get back to the old ways.
 
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Boy, been gone for a few days and all hell's broken loose. But really, haven't seen any of the fighting, or course, I do not look for it. The Admins are doing a GREAT job! Thanks!
 

bdc30

BoM May '11
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Guess it's up to us veterans to try to turn the tide. Think if we all make this commitment we can get back to the old ways.
That's actually a really good point, and got me to thinking. It's easy to grumble and say the place isn't what it once was - but if you're going to do that, I would at the very least hope you can answer one question:

What is it that YOU personally do to enhance the brotherhood and community here at BOTL?

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not singling anyone out by posting that question, but if you can't come up with an answer and you've been here more than 'x' amount of time, then maybe it's time to step up and make a bit more of an effort (or, alternately if you don't want to make that effort, don't complain and spoil the mood for everyone else).

As for me, I'll answer the question publicly, though I'm not asking anyone else to do so. I ran both the regular season and playoff hockey pools, have participated in every BBE since I got here, donated raffle prizes in the past, I'm active in the newbie trade thread and the lottery pool. I started up the BOTL Canada subforum, ran a boxpass, posted a couple contests and have travelled to Chicago in October and Michigan just this past month to meet up with some great brothers. I love this place and have made some great friends that I'll make a point of staying in touch with for years to come.

I challenge everyone that reads this thread and agrees to try and answer that question for themselves.

I saw Bob (hdroadglide) post a thread today almost begging for a few more guys to help out in the newbie trade thread. On a board where camaraderie and brotherhood are supposed to be paramount, there should be a dozen or more vets waiting in line at any given time to help welcome good new members (especially since now the new guys have to send first so there's ZERO risk of getting burned or them grabbing some free sticks and bolting).

Anyway, I'm rambling now but my point stands. I come here every day and try and do some little part to be a true BOTL and make this place enjoyable. Hopefully tomorrow a few more people will join me and do the same.

Cheers
Brent
 
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Many well-stated points in this thread. :thumbsup:
IMO, though, some of the problems I've seen have been from newer guys who migrated here from some other forums. Those guys might honestly not know that what they are doing is a problem, since it seems to be the norm on SOOO many other sites on the web. Sometimes it takes a direct PM to open their eyes to how things are supposed to be done.
 

Cigary43

Just Another Ashhole
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Good post here and it's up to every member to try and make this a place where we can come to and enjoy without making things personal. Most cigar forums go through their "hard times" and it doesn't help the overall climate by singling out other Forums as good or bad. Each person joins them at their own leisure as to whether it's a good fit or not for them. What should matter is that members treat each other with the same level of respect that they want from others. Nobody here is above the other nor are they the quintessential know it all/know everything about everything. Everybody has opinions and feelings and regardless of whether there is a sub forum for debates does not give anyone the right to feel their opinion is better or more factual than another. Respect is what is deserved from one member to another and if that is followed there should never be any drama.
 

Jfire

BoM 9/9' 9/11' 8/12'
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I've been too busy moving, trying to help get donations with Matts ride 4 kids and getting ready to house 2 botls from other states next week. Lots of good stuff still going on here IMO. What anyone chooses to take from botl is there own making....
 
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Lately, there has been a growing attitude of rudeness developing on here.
Bill, I agree with ya 100% - I've only been here around 9 months now and I've seen it personally.

For example, getting messages like this in your Inbox...

You'll be gone soon. Buh Bye, little man.
and...

You POS. I hope you get what's coming.
You don't let one bad apple spoil the entire bunch.
 
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I still like BOTL... I can't really tell if the "altercations" are more common now than before. I've been a little harsh on one occasion with another member recently, but we squashed it in PM's. There's always gonna be skirmishes here and there.

I've noticed alot of newbs with like 2 or 3 posts asking random questions and then just disappearing, no intro or anything. That's a little annoying.

I think the most important thing is to not take this board too seriously... I mean its a brotherhood but we're all humans, we have faults. Just get what you can out of the board, try to be a positive member and be content with that. There's always gonna be those hot shots (they seem to be the newer members) that just run their mouths and act obnoxious. They will most likely disappear or eventually realize that this is more than a place to run your mouth. This is still a GREAT board!
 

ciggy

"TommyBoy"
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I've been too busy moving, trying to help get donations with Matts ride 4 kids and getting ready to house 2 botls from other states next week. Lots of good stuff still going on here IMO. What anyone chooses to take from botl is there own making....
:thumbsup: Wish I was one of them J...Hopefully I'll get down your way soon.
I agree with you on good stuff still going on here. BOTL has been my second home for almost 2 years now. I've made good friends and learned alot. Unfortunatly some people just love to create drama.
 

Deemancpa

Hook'em Horns
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Well said, the reason I'm here to escape the high degree of cynicism on one site in particular, detracting from the site's purpose.

D
 
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