How many do you carry?

[DocLogic77]

I only have 2 guns and only keep them for home protection. I don't carry.

 

[indyrob]

3 months ago, 2 teenagers shot it out in my complex. 1 died, the other is in jail on a homicide charge. It was over a drug deal and petty differences. Both were under the age of 17.

This used to be a nice complex and I am sure that the parents of both boys are good people, but they moved away from the hood to here. The 2 boys brought the hood with them.

If these 2 boys had such a reckless disregard for thier own lives, what makes you think that they will value mine that much more?

 

[BkSmoke]

Well said Fuente,
Sometimes showing restraint is the better alternative, as you can see I don't believe in drawing your weapon unless you're in a self defense situation. Some people like to confront situations with force which can ultimately lead to an even greater disaster.

Indy,
I live in Brooklyn,NY that sort of incident happens every day here and it is very sad. Unfortunately you are right so many teenagers do not value their life or ours as they should but that is precisely why I wouldn't try and confront such an individual. That is why we pay taxes and have law enforcement in our areas to handle such situations. If you feel your life is in immediate danger then by all means you are justified to use any means necessary to protect yourself.

 

[PetersCreek]

This is not a vaguely worded hypothetical as Mr. Creek would lead you to believe, it is a specific occurrence that happens frequently within most cities and states.

It most certainly is a vaguely-worded hypothetical situation. You failed to lay out a host of relevant factors that vary from situation to situation...factors that would play a critical role in on-the-spot risk assessment and decision making. In fact, the very reason I'll not be baited into giving you a blanket answer to your scenario is embodied in...

Ok Mr. Creek, you pull your gun, the criminal and his two accomplices who you didn't see pull their guns, now you are probably going to get murdered over a car, is it worth it?

You just took your all-too-general mind play...which you claimed to be quite specific...and added another factor (among potentially dozens of factors) that was not speficied in your "specific occurance." I will not play in to this sort of selective information feeding and trap-setting while you skirt the points I've raised.

 

[David]

I have a couple of things to add. First, I would not pull a gun on someone trying to steal my car. I would promptly beat their ass and in the slight chance I felt my life was threatened during their ass beating, I would then pull my gun on them.

Secondly, the statement quoted below is one of the most ludicrous and shallow minded things I have read in awhile. All credibilty went out the window when you typed that so you, Mr. Smoke, are now arguing a losing battle:

Most people carry guns because they have a huge inferiority complex...

 

[fuente]

ok, here's a real life possible scenario:

You see someone, anyone, doesn't have to be a minor, breaking into your car. You're in a semi public place - so there are witnesses. You make visual and verbal contact with him, pull your gun, and tell him to back away. He looks you straight in the eye, and basically ignores you, climbing into your car and speeding off.

My question would be this: Between the time he decided to ignore your threat and gets into the car, what do you do?

You cannot discharge your weapon in most if not all states, because the same deadly threat is not being imposed upon you. And although he is stealing your property, he is not ON your property, so that won't work either.

If you shoot him, you'd be in the wrong...way in the wrong. You'd be sued in criminal court, and even if you win or plea there, you'd be buried in civil court. You're life would essentially be over.

Of course the odds of him ingnoring you are slim to none, but if he's high or intoxicated, it could happen.

My point is that if you pull your weapon, which may or may not be lawful, you certainly cannot discharge it legally unless you feel your life is threatened. And this means you also need witnesses to feel your life is in danger also.

I assume you would be intelligent and responsible enough to know that you cannot legally shoot the thief unless, basically, he pulls a gun on you.

Fear is a great deterent, but if your bluff is called you must be prepared to do the smart thing (I'm assuming all here would).

 

[fuente]

I have a couple of things to add. First, I would not pull a gun on someone trying to steal my car. I would promptly beat their ass and in the slight chance I felt my life was threatened during their ass beating, I would then pull my gun on them.

Careful there Dave. You beatting their ass to an extent greater then just detaining them will get you in trouble. I've seen this a few times outside of bars when I was in college. Guy walks out, drunk, and grabs a girlfriend of another guy, who is also drunk. Guy #2 beats the living hell out of Guy #1.

Both go to the drunk tank, but Guy #2 gets prosecuted for assault.

But Guy #2 also probably thinks it was worth it.

 

[David]

k...I will cuff em and kick em a few times while they're down.

 

[fuente]

k...I will cuff em and kick em a few times while they're down.

That's more like it

 

[BkSmoke]

k...I will cuff em and kick em a few times while they're down.

My point exactly.

 

[David]

Careful there Dave. You beatting their ass to an extent greater then just detaining them will get you in trouble. I've seen this a few times outside of bars when I was in college. Guy walks out, drunk, and grabs a girlfriend of another guy, who is also drunk. Guy #2 beats the living hell out of Guy #1.

Both go to the drunk tank, but Guy #2 gets prosecuted for assault.

But Guy #2 also probably thinks it was worth it.

Alright...I'll give ya my straight answers since I agree with some in the thread and disagree with others.

1. Do I agree with the need to carry 3 guns? No, but I do agree that someone has the right to do so if they hold a valid permit and desire to do so.

2. Would I pull a gun on someone who was trying to steal my car? Nope. The only time a gun should be pulled is if you are in fear for your life and are prepared to use it. A car can be replaced but a human life cannot.

3. Would I confront the culprit attempting the theft? That's a sticky one because one would not want to be the instigator in the altercation and then also have a weapon involved. Virginia law does not permit the use of deadly force to protect outside property. As someone said early on in this thread, CCW holders tend to be the ones that are often avoiding confrontation due to implications that could be involved by legally having a weapon on them.

 

[BkSmoke]

See Dave,
You said what I've been trying to say for the last 2 days, I guess you are more articulate then I am. I agree 1000% and I hope everyone who owned a gun would think as responsibly as you do.
Dex

 

[DocLogic77]

I guess the more troubling questions are about pulling a gun on a child and/or teen trying to steal your car. From a moral perspective I see nothing wrong with actually pulling the gun. Would a gun pulled scare the kid straight? Would the pulling of the gun actually produce more problems? I can say that I would not personally pull a gun on anyone that I didn't feel proposed a risk to me or my family. This isn't because of some liberal psychosocial babble. It's because it could lead me and my family to deep crap. The law is very clear in most states. Kill someone (let alone a minor) entering your car and you will go to prison. It makes the choice simple. Anytime a gun is pulled the risk of a violent outcome increases. As much as it would hurt me, I would call 911 and let the PO handle the situation.

 

[BkSmoke]

Thanks for the info FPDoc,
I don't understand what Mr. Creek and CVM's arguement is then, if it's against the law to kill/shoot someone who is trying to steal your car then for them to pull their gun is useless and could only lead to them being prosecuted or worse. I would assume that most gun holders would NEVER point a weapon at another human being unless their life was in immediate danger and they intended to use it. So if the law states that you will be breaking the law and go to jail if you use your weapon in this instance, then Mr.Creek you CANNOT use your weapon to protect your vehicle.

 

[cvm4]

Thanks for the info FPDoc,
I don't understand what Mr. Creek and CVM's arguement is then, if it's against the law to kill/shoot someone who is trying to steal your car then for them to pull their gun is useless and could only lead to them being prosecuted or worse. I would assume that most gun holders would NEVER point a weapon at another human being unless their life was in immediate danger and they intended to use it. So if the law states that you will be breaking the law and go to jail if you use your weapon in this instance, then Mr.Creek you CANNOT use your weapon to protect your vehicle.

Every situation is different and you only have a second or two to judge it. Better to be safe than sorry, IMHO. There are a lot of scenarios that can happen. Who do you think always wins the case? The dirtbag with a criminal record stealing or a guy with no record at all who provides for his family the honest way? There's a no brainer You must have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that I instigated anything. Again I say, lots of scenarios...

I never said I'd kill someone over stealing my car. But, if I feel threatened, i.e. they try to run over me with it, they reach in their pocket/etc etc etc. Like I said, many scenarios can happen. It's up to the person to judge accordingly and not someone over the internet trying to dictate what they preceive to be right and wrong in their mind. You choose to be passive while some others choose to be active. There's nothing wrong with that and it's just different lifestyles for different people.

 

[BkSmoke]

I understand your point but if you pull your weapon because you see someone trying to steal your car, you are breaking the law and can be prosecuted. If the criminal reaches in his pocket and you shoot him/kill him you will be charged with murder because you should not have come outside and pulled your weapon in the first place. You can be active but you can also go to jail and be looked on as no different then the criminals that you seek to deter with your weapon. Obviously I did not make the laws concerning this matter and to be honest I don't think a person who is a good citizen should go to jail for pulling a gun on an adult criminal who is trying to steal their car but if we don't follow the rules then we are no better then the criminals that we despise.
Dex

 

[fuente]

Every situation is different and you only have a second or two to judge it. Better to be safe than sorry, IMHO. There are a lot of scenarios that can happen. Who do you think always wins the case? The dirtbag with a criminal record stealing or a guy with no record at all who provides for his family the honest way? There's a no brainer

If you pulled a gun on someone trying to steal your car, I'd say the odds are 50/50. Even if you won, you could be sued in civil court and probably would lose. Unless you can show without a shadow of a doubt, with witnesses, that you felt your life was in danger, you will lose. Every time. But this is in CA. In MS it may be different.

You must have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that I instigated anything. Again I say, lots of scenarios...

You would be in the wrong if you pulled your weapon without an equal or more severe threat on you. It would be up to you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you felt in fear of your life. And you better have witnesses that will state that as well.

I never said I'd kill someone over stealing my car. But, if I feel threatened, i.e. they try to run over me with it, they reach in their pocket/etc etc etc.

If they try and run you over with it, then you would be within your right to fire, but you could still be sued in civil court if you kill the guy, and you'd probably lose. Again, this is in CA. Juries don't like gun-toting pro-NRA running around killing people, for any reason except if they were fired upon themselves. Again, this is not me talking, but the attitude of the courts in CA.

Like I said, many scenarios can happen. It's up to the person to judge accordingly and not someone over the internet trying to dictate what they preceive to be right and wrong in their mind. You choose to be passive while some others choose to be active. There's nothing wrong with that and it's just different lifestyles for different people.

The great thing about the internet is that you can see other views on topics that may not be in line with your own. If you pay attention (not you, people in general) you can learn something about others and yourself.

However, in this case, unless you are truely threatened by a weapon or by the vehicle itself coming right at you, and you have no choice but to kill or be killed, there is no way under the law that pulling your weapon is the correct move. It may feel right, but if you weigh all the possible outcomes and look at the many negatives, well.....

 

[cvm4]

Actually, contrary to what other states have, the law is on my side in this debate.

http://www.wapt.com/news/9276763/detail.html

http://www.wlbt.com/Global/story.asp?s=5038475

It may not be moral to some, but it is legal in my state.

 

[fuente]

Actually, contrary to what other states have, the law is on my side in this debate.

http://www.wapt.com/news/9276763/detail.html

It may not be moral to some, but it is legal in my state.

Interesting. And a good law

But the arguement was if you saw someone breaking in to your car, which is not occupied. The Castle Doctrine specifically states...

...if a criminal breaks into your home, your occupied vehicle or your place of business, you may presume he is there to do bodily harm and you may use any force against him.

Also:

...Furthermore, this law provides protection from criminal prosecution and civil litigation for those who defend themselves from criminal attack.

OCCUPIED vehicles only. Which makes sense. It's reasonable to assume that your life is in danger if someone breaks into your vehicle with you in it.

You are not being criminally attacked if someone is breaking into your vehicle and you're not in or around it.

You're still breaking the law, big time, if you shoot someone who is breaking into you're unoccupied vehicle, which I think was the basis for this whole discussion.

Please remember that if you do what you are saying you would (or might) do, your life and thus the life of your family, will change drastically and completely to complete misery - legally, financially, and emotionally.

When you weigh that against your car insurance deductable, it seems to be a no-brainer.

 

[cvm4]

I understand your point Fuente. If it was on my property then you better believe I'd do something about it. If it was in some unfamiliar area away from my home, then I'd be more cautious to the situation at hand.