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Hygrometer Probe...for Cigar Science

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Gotta be a misunderstanding of what I'm testing. It's as if you are saying over humidified or under humidified smokes all still smoke the same. That moisture levels don't matter in performance or taste. Surely you aren't saying that.

In my study I will be smoking (essentially) the same cigar (same weight, same box/age) with the only variable being different moisture levels (whatever those will be based on the different RH saturation levels of each boveda. TBD.). Why would you need more than those 5 cigars to note those differences. You don't think I'll detect a bell curve of performance (burn quality, smoke temperature, smoke density, smoke oilyness etc) and taste (which is more subjective of course) but for me smokes that are too wet or too dry reveal all sorts of bad tastes (and performance) I don't get from a properly humidified one.

If it works, this gadget will help discover what those preferred moisture levels are and know instantly that a stick is at that level or not. Right?
I seriously hope you figure this out and take it to market. If I could probe a cigar and see the humidity level inside I'd buy that devise and my financial tolerance level would be $200 ish.
 
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I seriously hope you figure this out and take it to market. If I could probe a cigar and see the humidity level inside I'd buy that devise and my financial tolerance level would be $200 ish.
As do I my friend. I wish it existed already. That's great info btw - to get a read on what something like this would be worth to people.

All I need now is one millionaire, one patent attorney, one materials engineer, one 3D printer and one website designer. Simple. :/

Do any of the shark tank folks smoke cigars? Lol
 
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Can you tell us what cigar you're using for the test?
Sure. In there I'm testing RP Royale Toro's, Oliva V Melanio Toro & EP Carrillo La Historia EIII. All with about two years age on them.
 
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This study will take some time but I'm interested in hearing about what you find.
My guess would be that the weight and size won't have much affect on your results. You are measuring the % moisture content of the cigar so it should be irrespective of size and weight just like as if the cigars were fully conditioned at the correct RH.
 
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Me too. It's been fun so far - smoking cigars for science. Now my wife has less cause to gripe about this hobby.

Question for you or anyone on here who knows. So the moisture meter I am using has two settings: Wood and building materials. Dry wall I'm thinking. I just tested a stick that has leveled out in my 69% box and it read 18.2% for "wood" and 2% less for the other. (It had clear burn and taste issues to summarize my finding on that one) Which setting do you think more closely represents tobacco leaf? I'm leaning towards the smaller reading simply because 13% is supposedly the general rule of thumb for cigars (according to that fancy humidor company who's name escapes me at the moment).

Obviously if something like this were to ever actually be developed and marketed, the electronics portion would have to be calibrated for "tobacco" whatever that setting ends up being.
 
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Me too. It's been fun so far - smoking cigars for science. Now my wife has less cause to gripe about this hobby.

Question for you or anyone on here who knows. So the moisture meter I am using has two settings: Wood and building materials. Dry wall I'm thinking. I just tested a stick that has leveled out in my 69% box and it read 18.2% for "wood" and 2% less for the other. (It had clear burn and taste issues to summarize my finding on that one) Which setting do you think more closely represents tobacco leaf? I'm leaning towards the smaller reading simply because 13% is supposedly the general rule of thumb for cigars (according to that fancy humidor company who's name escapes me at the moment).
Obviously if something like this were to ever actually be developed and marketed, the electronics portion would have to be calibrated for "tobacco" whatever that setting ends up being.
The short answer is "it doesn't matter". The reading you are getting is just a number that "represents" the cigar moisture content.
A bit of background.... different types of wood have different properties. Oak is different than pine, etc. Even different species within a group, such as Yellow Pine, Scots Pine, Red Pine, all have different properties which affect the moisture meter readings. A good moisture meter will have the ability to be programmed to the specific species of wood being tested or have a conversion chart that tells you what to add or subtract from the reading to get an accurate reading. These differences between species are usually only plus or minus a couple of percent. Cheap meters don't have any correction for different species so your reading is always "close" but may be off by a couple of percent. This is OK because most people use moisture meters to see if wood has reached an equilibrium with the surroundings or to monitor it as it dries. The exact % is not critical.
The meter you have can be switched to "building materials" . The same holds true for building materials. They are not the same. Drywall is not the same as carpet or insulation. The readings will simply be "relative", meaning you can see if something is wet or dry or if something is wetter that something else.
So what does all this mean.... If you want to convert the meter reading to the actual moisture content of the cigar then you have to do the "oven-dry weight" calculation that I talked about previously. Then you will know what 13% on the meter actually is in % moisture in the cigar. If you just want to know what is the optimal reading for smoking then you can just do what you are doing now.
My suggestion is after you finish your tests you should relabel the moisture meter with colors, red-yellow-green-yellow-red. The red is too wet, yellow is a bit wet- green is good, yellow is a bit dry, red is too dry, or something like that.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it makes sense. This may be better explained if you google "moisture content in wood".
It may be just you and I who are interested in this.
 
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The short answer is "it doesn't matter". The reading you are getting is just a number that "represents" the cigar moisture content.
A bit of background.... different types of wood have different properties. Oak is different than pine, etc. Even different species within a group, such as Yellow Pine, Scots Pine, Red Pine, all have different properties which affect the moisture meter readings. A good moisture meter will have the ability to be programmed to the specific species of wood being tested or have a conversion chart that tells you what to add or subtract from the reading to get an accurate reading. These differences between species are usually only plus or minus a couple of percent. Cheap meters don't have any correction for different species so your reading is always "close" but may be off by a couple of percent. This is OK because most people use moisture meters to see if wood has reached an equilibrium with the surroundings or to monitor it as it dries. The exact % is not critical.
The meter you have can be switched to "building materials" . The same holds true for building materials. They are not the same. Drywall is not the same as carpet or insulation. The readings will simply be "relative", meaning you can see if something is wet or dry or if something is wetter that something else.
So what does all this mean.... If you want to convert the meter reading to the actual moisture content of the cigar then you have to do the "oven-dry weight" calculation that I talked about previously. Then you will know what 13% on the meter actually is in % moisture in the cigar. If you just want to know what is the optimal reading for smoking then you can just do what you are doing now.
My suggestion is after you finish your tests you should relabel the moisture meter with colors, red-yellow-green-yellow-red. The red is too wet, yellow is a bit wet- green is good, yellow is a bit dry, red is too dry, or something like that.
Sorry for the long post. I hope it makes sense. This may be better explained if you google "moisture content in wood".
It may be just you and I who are interested in this.
Yes. I get it and agree. doesn't matter as long as one isnt insistent on knowing actual moisture percentage as long as you have the data bank of the specific cigars that were previously tested and you use the same make/model of meter AND the same sensor plate pressure applied. I'm noticing the % reading increases the harder I push the two plates together (I'm using pennies attached with alligator clips) but it levels out. Makes sense since added pressure improves conduction by removing any resistance caused by the air gap. Ill probably switch the pennies to something smoother to remove any air gaps caused by the peaks and valleys on their faces. On that note the device would have to be made in such a way to keep the applied pressure consistent regardless of the length of each cigar tested.

Since I personally want to know what the actual MC levels are I plan is to sacrifice some gars using the oven dry-weight method you outlined to calibrate the unit in hand.

Thanks for the input and encouragement!
J
 

phuetson

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Yes. I get it and agree. doesn't matter as long as one isnt insistent on knowing actual moisture percentage as long as you have the data bank of the specific cigars that were previously tested and you use the same make/model of meter AND the same sensor plate pressure applied. I'm noticing the % reading increases the harder I push the two plates together (I'm using pennies attached with alligator clips) but it levels out. Makes sense since added pressure improves conduction by removing any resistance caused by the air gap. Ill probably switch the pennies to something smoother to remove any air gaps caused by the peaks and valleys on their faces. On that note the device would have to be made in such a way to keep the applied pressure consistent regardless of the length of each cigar tested.

Since I personally want to know what the actual MC levels are I plan is to sacrifice some gars using the oven dry-weight method you outlined to calibrate the unit in hand.

Thanks for the input and encouragement!
J
Apologies for attempting to revive what seem to be a dead thread, however I am interested in what your "repeatability" on readings were.

A little background, I am an Electrical Engineering student finishing up my degree, and I have begun a project to measure the "70/70" vs Moisture Content in a Cigar. I have a test humidor with 5 +/- 1.5% RH humidity / Temp sensors all logging data, which will be correlated and then used to provide a weighted average of RH / TMP in the humidor. I am currently looking into using "tobacco resistance" as is used in wood, but I am unsure of actual accuracy. I Believe that using voltage resistance as a variable to judge Moisture Content may be inconsistent. In wood, or building materials you have above average homogeneousness, this would hold true for 1 tobacco leaf in a cigar, but I believe utilizing the entire stick what you will end up with is a series of "resistors" in parallel, and this series would change from stick to stick, and from attachment to attachment on the same stick, thus skewing any repeatability of measurements.

I am curious as to if you have tried measuring the MC in 1 stick multiple times, removing the stick after each measurement and then reattaching the leads and measuring again, if so have you calculated your % error between measurements?

Hope you are still working this, or have some good data,
Pete
 
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I realize everyone is different in what blows our skirts up, but if I was ate up with this much head shit about the hobby, it would take all of the enjoyment out of smoking a cigar. But to each their own.
 

phuetson

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I realize everyone is different in what blows our skirts up, but if I was ate up with this much head shit about the hobby, it would take all of the enjoyment out of smoking a cigar. But to each their own.
To begin, nice choice with the Total Recall Avatar!

And I needed a "final" project so I thought why not use a hobby I am aleady enjoying, I get to learn more about it, and it gives me an excuse to purchase cigars, and better humidors.

I also agree, the math and science behind it is not in every ones bag!
 
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