Pics of Your Sticks

[TheReMixologist]

1% game improvement.

beautiful!!!

 

[LarMoeCur]

1% game improvement.

That thing looks awesome! Except it needs a maduro wrapper.

 

[webmost]

I see FX Smith has a website. How can I order said wrapper tobacco?

PM me... I am the candy man

 

[blisscigarco]

That thing looks awesome! Except it needs a maduro wrapper.

You get a line on a maduro wrapper that doesn't suck and then we'll talk.

 

[LarMoeCur]

You get a line on a maduro wrapper that doesn't suck and then we'll talk.

I was noticing that there are almost zero maduro wrappers for the home roller. I've got a humidor full of dark goodness all comercial. Any idea why that is?

 

[Fusion555]

I was noticing that there are almost zero maduro wrappers for the home roller. I've got a humidor full of dark goodness all comercial. Any idea why that is?

Probably because of the extra work required, at a minimum its an extra fermentation, then steam could come into play, then a "mojo" can be used usually some kind of sugar substance (fruit juice ect) so this all takes time and extra money

 

[blisscigarco]

I was noticing that there are almost zero maduro wrappers for the home roller. I've got a humidor full of dark goodness all comercial. Any idea why that is?

It takes a lot of work/time/money to make them, and the market for them is very small (I read recently that people who are into cigar social media and online culture are overwhelmingly interested in darker wrappers, but that this does not represent the wider world market). Because people who are into cigars on a social media/internet basis are more likely to take up home rolling, the retailers offer many dark-colored SKUs, but they are not pro quality).

 

[TheReMixologist]

Gentlemen... I want to respond to something I have seen on here several times that kinda rubs me the wrong way. This is said out of the utmost respect and value for each MOTL here.

I've read several remarks about the quality of leaf we have available to us verses that of name brand retailers. It comes across that we receive subpar/substandad leaf which implies we can only produce a substandard stick. I can not agree with this line of thought as I've never had anyone tell me they can get better smokes in the retail world... in fact I get just the opposite response from those who enjoy my blends. Even when they don't prefer a particular blend it has nothing to do with it's quality and everything to do with palate preference. I know this because I offer a DIRTY Dozen taster flight with 13 different blends on it and it has always... without fail been about the palate profile preferences and never once about inferiority of product.

That being said... I like to refer to my 26 years of home cooking for my family of 7... I never had the best spices money could buy... but people who ate my food always told me to open a restaurant ... it's never really about the quality of spice but the arranement and composition... just like music... while the instrument is important... it's not as important as the arrangement and composition of the music itself. What we do with these leaves is far more significant than the leaves we have at our disposal. We have something far greater than some of these retail blends out there. We can't compete and should not compete because it's apple juice and orange juice... of alllll the things they have in common, they pale in comparison to the differences in their final product... The juice is not the same. So sure... maybe we get second string or third string grade... but nothing stops us from producing 5 star quality.

Now about the Maduro leaves... Maduro is not just the name given to a specific leaf... it's the description of the dark color of the leaf and or it's fermentation process... as you already know. As a result... there are many different leaves that are sold as Maduro on the market... saying Maduro is like saying Shade ... you then need to specify the type of Maduro or Shade wrapper. For example someone above mentioned there not being any Maduro leaves available to us... this is inaccurate... Oscuro for example IS a Maduro... in most cases Double Maduro... even though it is not the darkest of color it's flavor profile is fantastic and if stretched correctly and paired with a good burn arrangement... burns wonderfully... we also have Maduro named leaf through leaf only... another great flavor profile but darker than Oscuro but not as black as some marketed maduros... Although most times Cameroon isn't Maduro...The LO Cameroon ... to me... it's oily enough to be classified Maduro... Dark fire cursed is also a maduro... Mex San Andres... if well blended is a fantastic maduro leaf... The list goes on.

In any event... not to belabor the points... we should not under value or undrestimate our contribution or quality of contribution to cigar culture and lifestyle. Everyone knows there's nothing better than a good home cooked meal. Long leaf life my fellow MOTL

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Gentlemen... I want to respond to something I have seen on here several times that kinda rubs me the wrong way. This is said out of the utmost respect and value for each MOTL here.

I've read several remarks about the quality of leaf we have available to us verses that of name brand retailers. It comes across that we receive subpar/substandad leaf which implies we can only produce a substandard stick. I can not agree with this line of thought as I've never had anyone tell me they can get better smokes in the retail world... in fact I get just the opposite response from those who enjoy my blends. Even when they don't prefer a particular blend it has nothing to do with it's quality and everything to do with palate preference. I know this because I offer a DIRTY Dozen taster flight with 13 different blends on it and it has always... without fail been about the palate profile preferences and never once about inferiority of product.

That being said... I like to refer to my 26 years of home cooking for my family of 7... I never had the best spices money could buy... but people who ate my food always told me to open a restaurant ... it's never really about the quality of spice but the arranement and composition... just like music... while the instrument is important... it's not as important as the arrangement and composition of the music itself. What we do with these leaves is far more significant than the leaves we have at our disposal. We have something far greater than some of these retail blends out there. We can't compete and should not compete because it's apple juice and orange juice... of alllll the things they have in common, they pale in comparison to the differences in their final product... The juice is not the same. So sure... maybe we get second string or third string grade... but nothing stops us from producing 5 star quality.

Now about the Maduro leaves... Maduro is not just the name given to a specific leaf... it's the description of the dark color of the leaf and or it's fermentation process... as you already know. As a result... there are many different leaves that are sold as Maduro on the market... saying Maduro is like saying Shade ... you then need to specify the type of Maduro or Shade wrapper. For example someone above mentioned there not being any Maduro leaves available to us... this is inaccurate... Oscuro for example IS a Maduro... in most cases Double Maduro... even though it is not the darkest of color it's flavor profile is fantastic and if stretched correctly and paired with a good burn arrangement... burns wonderfully... we also have Maduro named leaf through leaf only... another great flavor profile but darker than Oscuro but not as black as some marketed maduros... Although most times Cameroon isn't Maduro...The LO Cameroon ... to me... it's oily enough to be classified Maduro... Dark fire cursed is also a maduro... Mex San Andres... if well blended is a fantastic maduro leaf... The list goes on.

In any event... not to belabor the points... we should not under value or undrestimate our contribution or quality of contribution to cigar culture and lifestyle. Everyone knows there's nothing better than a good home cooked meal. Long leaf life my fellow MOTL

I could not agree more. I think the quality available to us is pretty damn good right now. There are quite a few dark leaf offerings as well. My favorite dark leaf we can get "at this current moment" is the Aripiraca from LO. Just cause I like it doesn't mean you will. Just cause it works with my blends, doesn't mean it will work with yours. Experiment, try new things, take notes, and repeat.

 

[blisscigarco]

Gentlemen...

This could also read "Bliss..." Because I am the only one here claiming the dark brown retail wrappers are not to the same high level as either the best pro dark brown wrappers or the retail filler--which I have often said is great. For my taste/smell/feel/ there is not a dark brown CBL, Habano, or MSA available to us that equates to the best commercial dark brown CBL, Habano, or MSA wrappers. Currently the Arapiraca is my favorite retail dark brown wrapper, and I've smoked many botl cigars rolled in it that I thought were very good cigars. And yet, do I think its up to the level of the best commercial dark brown wrappers...? - b

 

[LarMoeCur]

For example someone above mentioned there not being any Maduro leaves available to us... this is inaccurate... Oscuro for example IS a Maduro... in most cases Double Maduro... even though it is not the darkest of color it's flavor profile is fantastic and if stretched correctly and paired with a good burn arrangement... burns wonderfully... we also have Maduro named leaf through leaf only... another great flavor profile but darker than Oscuro but not as black as some marketed maduros... Although most times Cameroon isn't Maduro...The LO Cameroon ... to me... it's oily enough to be classified Maduro... Dark fire cursed is also a maduro... Mex San Andres... if well blended is a fantastic maduro leaf... The list goes on.

That was me. I said “almost zero” which was an exaggeration on my part. I scoured the internet before placing my order for tobacco. There is not a lot of love for the maduro wrappers that are available to DIY rollers.

 

[TheReMixologist]

That was me. I said “almost zero” which was an exaggeration on my part. I scoured the internet before placing my order for tobacco. There is not a lot of love for the maduro wrappers that are available to DIY rollers.

I couldn't remember who said it I will admit it's more limited... if more rollers had greater success with it I think it would be more popular for us... but the market has a great love for them. I get a lot of requests for it but most customers don't really know what they are asking for... they just say... I like Maduro true aficionados do ask for what they specifically care for. It's always going to come down to the blend and the stretch of that Maduro. You only get a few shots at stretching it during hydration or the leaf is lost.

 

[blisscigarco]

It's a hot, dry California summer day. I'm setting out front of my rolling shack, having a smoke. Off in the distance I see a procession of trucks winding up the road toward me, throwing up dust that turns the horizon a deep, dark orange. Beside me I have a wooden box containing pounds of the finest dark brown wrapper leaf from WLT and LO.

The first truck pulls up. A silver-haired, mustachioed man wearing a fine Stetson approaches me with a large bundle. "Sir, I am Eladio Diaz, Davidoff master blender. I bring you three pounds of our "133," the maduro wrapper we use on our esteemed 702 series. I will trade you these for any three pounds you have there in that box."

"Hell no! Get outta here with that shit!" I say. "I already got the best maduro wrapper leaf right here. Get on, now! Git!" I kick dust at him as he hightails it back to the truck with his shitleaf.

Next truck pulls up. It's Kyle Gellis, from Warped. "Yo," He says. "I've got a few pounds of that Habano oscuro we use on El Oso. Wondering if you could hook me up with some of that stuff you got there. I'll throw in one of these 'Be Exclusively Different' cups for free."

I duck into my shack, return with my loaded double-barrel and a few extra cartridges. "The fuck out of here, Kyle." I raise the gun in his general direction.

Next up: Jonathan Drew. Before he can roll his Landcruiser's window half-way down, I'm over there like: "Don't be trying to trade me none of that crap you roll around those Liga Privada T52 cigars, Jonathan. I'm good with what I got right here! You roll along, now!"

He throws up a swirl of dust as he spins that thing around and hauls ass back the way he came.

Beat-looking '54 Chevy pickup truck rolls up. Handsome young fella, no doubt Cuban, by the looks of the word CUBA on his licence plate, registration expired 1959, gets out, goes to the back and pulls out a 150-kilo sack of the wrapper used on the Cuban Partagas line. "Sir, I will trade you this for just fifty pounds of your finest retail maduro leaf."

"Get the hell out of here with that garbage, you damn commie!" I say, as I blast both rounds at the sky and quickly reload.

Final truck. Creaks to a stop. Old dude gets out. It's Jose Padron. I say, "But, Jose, I thought you died last year. I and so many other cigar fans mourned your death. What are you doing here?"

"Well, senor, I heard you had some of that LO Arapiraca, so I came back from the dead to trade you a few pounds of the stuff we use on our Padron 1964 madur--"

BOOM. BOOM.

 

[TheReMixologist]

This could also read "Bliss..." Because I am the only one here claiming the dark brown retail wrappers are not to the same high level as either the best pro dark brown wrappers or the retail filler--which I have often said is great. For my taste/smell/feel/ there is not a dark brown CBL, Habano, or MSA available to us that equates to the best commercial dark brown CBL, Habano, or MSA wrappers. Currently the Arapiraca is my favorite retail dark brown wrapper, and I've smoked many botl cigars rolled in it that I thought were very good cigars. And yet, do I think its up to the level of the best commercial dark brown wrappers...? - b

Again I can't recall who said what... they read to my mind as collective thoughts... I agree with you 100% that the flavors are not as potent as retail... as a stand alone leaf... but... paired with a binder that profile complements the Maduro can "catch" or "mimick" it... I also love that Apriaca... I've bound Maduro... jacket Cameroon and wrapped Apriaca or reversed that order or put it against Brazilian and come extremely close... there is something beautiful in the marriage that retailers can't afford to reproduce but we can and that takes Maduro to new heights. Just A thought.

 

[TheReMixologist]

It's a hot, dry California summer day. I'm setting out front of my rolling shack, having a smoke. Off in the distance I see a procession of trucks winding up the road toward me, throwing up dust that turns the horizon a deep, dark orange. Beside me I have a wooden box containing pounds of the finest dark brown wrapper leaf from WLT and LO.

The first truck pulls up. A silver-haired, mustachioed man wearing a fine Stetson approaches me with a large bundle. "Sir, I am Eladio Diaz, Davidoff master blender. I bring you three pounds of our "133," the maduro wrapper we use on our esteemed 702 series. I will trade you these for any three pounds you have there in that box."

"Hell no! Get outta here with that shit!" I say. "I already got the best maduro wrapper leaf right here. Get on, now! Git!" I kick dust at him as he hightails it back to the truck with his shitleaf.

Next truck pulls up. It's Kyle Gellis, from Warped. "Yo," He says. "I've got a few pounds of that Habano oscuro we use on El Oso. Wondering if you could hook me up with some of that stuff you got there. I'll throw in one of these 'Be Exclusively Different' cups for free."

I duck into my shack, return with my loaded double-barrel and a few extra cartridges. "The fuck out of here, Kyle." I raise the gun in his general direction.

Next up: Jonathan Drew. Before he can roll his Landcruiser's window half-way down, I'm over there like: "Don't be trying to trade me none of that crap you roll around those Liga Privada T52 cigars, Jonathan. I'm good with what I got right here! You roll along, now!"

He throws up a swirl of dust as he spins that thing around and hauls ass back the way he came.

Beat-looking '54 Chevy pickup truck rolls up. Handsome young fella, no doubt Cuban, by the looks of the word CUBA on his licence plate, registration expired 1959, gets out, goes to the back and pulls out a 150-kilo sack of the wrapper used on the Cuban Partagas line. "Sir, I will trade you this for just fifty pounds of your finest retail maduro leaf."

"Get the hell out of here with that garbage, you damn commie!" I say, as I blast both rounds at the sky and quickly reload.

Final truck. Creaks to a stop. Old dude gets out. It's Jose Padron. I say, "But, Jose, I thought you died last year. I and so many other cigar fans mourned your death. What are you doing here?"

"Well, senor, I heard you had some of that LO Arapiraca, so I came back from the dead to trade you a few pounds of the stuff we use on our Padron 1964 madur--"

BOOM. BOOM.

that was a great read!

 

[TheReMixologist]

I could not agree more. I think the quality available to us is pretty damn good right now. There are quite a few dark leaf offerings as well. My favorite dark leaf we can get "at this current moment" is the Aripiraca from LO. Just cause I like it doesn't mean you will. Just cause it works with my blends, doesn't mean it will work with yours. Experiment, try new things, take notes, and repeat.

It's a damn good leaf!

 

[TheReMixologist]

How many are sad about the Ecuadorian leaves being out of stock?

 

[Gdaddy]

Two points... If you want a dark wrapper you can stove the leaf in your home oven. Moisten the leaf and wrap in aluminium foil and bake at 220 for 2 hours and 20 minutes. You can get it almost black.

Many of the commercial sticks are dyed to a dark uniform color.

Secondly, there's the old discussion about how much does the wrapper influence the overall flavor. I'm in agreement with Don Pepin who says it's less than 25/30%. Others will disagree. The appearance of a maduro wrapper looks much richer to the eye and can implant a mental perception. Blind tasting in a dark room may yield surprising results.

If you carefully remove the wrapper from your favorite 'high end' commercial cigar and put it on your home roll tobacco would it really transform the cigar into a new amazing stick? I'm sure for some the perception would be greatly improved. The thin, small percentage of leaf is the only part of the cigar that's visible. This 'eye appeal' is very important in the cigar industry. The wrapper, the label, the box is all there to influence the perception.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I could not agree more. I think the quality available to us is pretty damn good right now. There are quite a few dark leaf offerings as well. My favorite dark leaf we can get "at this current moment" is the Aripiraca from LO. Just cause I like it doesn't mean you will. Just cause it works with my blends, doesn't mean it will work with yours. Experiment, try new things, take notes, and repeat.

BH, how would you describe the flavor of the Aripiraca Wrapper?

 

[BrewinHooligan]

BH, how would you describe the flavor of the Aripiraca Wrapper?

A little earthy, complex, deep, rich. It has a small hint of sweetness. It is very unique and worth checking out