Interesting Take On Cuban Cigars

[Cigary43]

Now, I won't readily scoff at communist industry - look at what the Soviets did in WW2; they turned out a massive war machine when they had to, that solidified them as a world power for the next 40 years - but hey, where's the Soviet Union now? (Not hating on Russia, or anyone from Russia - just saying, look how communism worked out over there...) Ever read Atlas Shrugged? This guy could easily pass as Ayn Rand, based solely on some parts of his editorial...

Communism in WWII wasn't a positive experience at all....I've studied WWII quite a bit and the reason for the massive war machine was not induced because of any patriotism....it was Stalin who pretty much forced the masses into slave labor unlike the United States that converted most of it's running plants to making tanks, planes, etc. Under Stalin the numbers are between 3 and 60 million people as he led his own country into war along with his own ruthless rule...not sure how I'd agree that it "worked" unless one doesn't mind having so many people being killed by Stalins own hand. His atrocities are just as bad as Hitlers and that's nothing to brag about.

 

[herfdog]

LOL, says the guy that hasn't been to Cuba and talks about his knowledge coming from how he has imagined it.

So please explain to me your theory that cuban cigars are not blended. You for real can tell me that factories make one single Robusto cigar, then sort by color, then put in different Marca (brand) boxes. All one shade goes into a Partagas SD4 box, then next shades go into Bolivar RC, then next to Cohiba Robusto, then next ERDM Choix etc. And cuban cigar smokers aren't really tasting different flavors in cigars, they are just being tricked because of the different bands on the cigars. Please confirm that's what you believe so everyone is clear.

Do you know why cigars are sorted by color after they are rolled and before being put in boxes? I do. And it's the same reason in Cuba, Nicaragua, the DR etc.

I don't say they make ONE robusto and then put whatever label they see fit. Please read. What I say is that the concept of blending does not exist there. They take tobacco from a region, roll it, and its a cigar.


I wonder how hard it is to imagine that cigar making was not always about mixing tobacco from various countries, in the histoire of making cigars. Cuba never blended cigars 400 years ago, and they just still don't.

Does it make a bad cigar? Obviously not. They are seen by a lot of people as superior.

What is not being put forward by the two guys smoke shop guy is how they choose certain tobacco for certain brands. But as far as blending goes... he's spot on: there is no 'blend', just tobacco rolled into smokable form. The flavors you have aren't from a savant blend, but from the tobacco that was carefully chosen.

 

[herfdog]

This is exaxtly what I was trying to clarify, except I don't speak good England. I just cannot see how this can be the case. I can't see whoevers dealing with the boxing and banding going "which boxes do we have lots of today, PSD4 and RASS, let's fill 'em up".
Somebody, somewhere, surely would have noticed by now if any marcas were simply the same cigars with different bands.

Oh... nope. I wouldn't see any cigar becoming any of those. But, the cigars are all made the same way. Just not with the same tobacco. At least that's how I understand the cuban way of making cigars.

 

[danmdevries]

I don't say they make ONE robusto and then put whatever label they see fit. Please read. What I say is that the concept of blending does not exist there. They take tobacco from a region, roll it, and its a cigar.


I wonder how hard it is to imagine that cigar making was not always about mixing tobacco from various countries, in the histoire of making cigars. Cuba never blended cigars 400 years ago, and they just still don't.

Does it make a bad cigar? Obviously not. They are seen by a lot of people as superior.

What is not being put forward by the two guys smoke shop guy is how they choose certain tobacco for certain brands. But as far as blending goes... he's spot on: there is no 'blend', just tobacco rolled into smokable form. The flavors you have aren't from a savant blend, but from the tobacco that was carefully chosen.

Like I said in my post on page one. TThere's probaby some grain of truth to the post.
There's not outside companies coming in with money to optimize the fields for production, and given the limited area for leaf supply, there isn't a huge palate of tobacco to blend from.
But... my preference lies with mild/medium CCs.

 

[multi-useless]

Communism in WWII wasn't a positive experience at all....I've studied WWII quite a bit and the reason for the massive war machine was not induced because of any patriotism....it was Stalin who pretty much forced the masses into slave labor unlike the United States that converted most of it's running plants to making tanks, planes, etc. Under Stalin the numbers are between 3 and 60 million people as he led his own country into war along with his own ruthless rule...not sure how I'd agree that it "worked" unless one doesn't mind having so many people being killed by Stalins own hand. His atrocities are just as bad as Hitlers and that's nothing to brag about.

I agree wholeheartedly, that there's no way to justify the atrocities of the regime, which I'm not inclined to do in the first place. I was addressing the quoted post, and our general predispositions to communist industry. Nothing more, nothing less.

ETA - I want to take back what was, admittedly, a rather nasty jab - I also want to apologize for that, as I'm not happy with the fact that I reacted as such. All I ask, is to please read my entire post before quoting me while jumping to the conclusion that I'm defending genocide...

 

[herfdog]

Like I said in my post on page one. TThere's probaby some grain of truth to the post.
There's not outside companies coming in with money to optimize the fields for production, and given the limited area for leaf supply, there isn't a huge palate of tobacco to blend from.
But... my preference lies with mild/medium CCs.

I don't think it has anything to do with the embargo, but with the communist government.
If they'd decide to invest into all those areas, I wonder how the cigars would become. I wonder if it would make them better, or if the old ways of doing them is what make the CCs what they are.

I sure like how NCs are blended...

 

[HIM*]

I don't say they make ONE robusto and then put whatever label they see fit. Please read. What I say is that the concept of blending does not exist there. They take tobacco from a region, roll it, and its a cigar.


I wonder how hard it is to imagine that cigar making was not always about mixing tobacco from various countries, in the histoire of making cigars. Cuba never blended cigars 400 years ago, and they just still don't.

Does it make a bad cigar? Obviously not. They are seen by a lot of people as superior.

What is not being put forward by the two guys smoke shop guy is how they choose certain tobacco for certain brands. But as far as blending goes... he's spot on: there is no 'blend', just tobacco rolled into smokable form. The flavors you have aren't from a savant blend, but from the tobacco that was carefully chosen.

This is kind of a slap in the face to art of what they're doing they deserve some more credit. You can't just throw any tobaccos together and call it a day. It might seem like that but they are growing particular strains of tobaccos they need for their cigars. I don't see how thats any different than what Fuente does or Padron or anyone else.

 

[sofc]

I don't say they make ONE robusto and then put whatever label they see fit. Please read. What I say is that the concept of blending does not exist there. They take tobacco from a region, roll it, and its a cigar.

I've had a few ccs in my time but I certainly do not know or care about the process behind it. I am not an expert nor even a novice when it comes to that aspect of the art.

But "taking tobacco, rolling it and it's a cigar?" If it was as simple as that, you're either attributing magical qualities to cuban tobacco or doing a total disservice to the blenders in outside of Cuba who meticulously make their cigars.

 

[herfdog]

This is kind of a slap in the face to art of what they're doing they deserve some more credit. You can't just throw any tobaccos together and call it a day. It might seem like that but they are growing particular strains of tobaccos they need for their cigars. I don't see how thats any different than what Fuente does or Padron or anyone else.

I've had a few ccs in my time but I certainly do not know or care about the process behind it. I am not an expert nor even a novice when it comes to that aspect of the art.

But "taking tobacco, rolling it and it's a cigar?" If it was as simple as that, you're either attributing magical qualities to cuban tobacco or doing a total disservice to the blenders in outside of Cuba who meticulously make their cigars.

They don't take 'any tobacco'

But the roller doesn't know or care or make anything different from brands to brands or tobacco to tobacco. They give him the days tobacco, he rolls, they send it to packaging. The point is that the roller doesn't know what he's rolling. Because its the choice of tobacco that makes the different cigar, not anything else.

Is my english that bad or are you just trying to deform what I am trying to say?

 

[sofc]

They don't take 'any tobacco'

But the roller doesn't know or care or make anything different from brands to brands or tobacco to tobacco. They give him the days tobacco, he rolls, they send it to packaging. The point is that the roller doesn't know what he's rolling. Because its the choice of tobacco that makes the different cigar, not anything else.

Is my english that bad or are you just trying to deform what I am trying to say?

I think I understood your english fine. I just don't know whether any roller in any factory has a say as to the blend. They don't pick and choose what to roll, that's the job of someone else. I don't care enough about this issue to fight with you so please do not be offended.

 

[herfdog]

I think I understood your english fine. I just don't know whether any roller in any factory has a say as to the blend. They don't pick and choose what to roll, that's the job of someone else. I don't care enough about this issue to fight with you so please do not be offended.

I am not offended at all. I couldn't care less about the whole thing. I am just trying to state my opinion without people understanding it wrong.

Which seems to be harder on this one topic, for whatever reason.

My perspective is different to one coming from an embargo state: we are not isolated from Cuba and CCs are seen as 'the cigar to buy' mainly out of habit and the fact we don't have much in the sense of boutique brands.

But english isn't my main language, so... theres that.

 

[Erikcooper]

Rollers in factories for Fuente, Padron, My Father are all going to simply roll what is handed to them for the day, in a uniform fashion not just however it goes together. And some of the "master blenders" blending NCs are supposed to be from Cuba, so they just decide to blend once they leave? I mean they don't have as much to work with there but they have leaf from different regions, different primings, and different ages all to play with

 

[Jfire]

There are hundreds of American cigar smokers who prefer cuban cigars over Non cubans.
There are hundreds of American cigar smokers who prefer Cuban cigars over NCs who have visited Cuba at least once if not a dozen times.
There are hundreds of American cigar smokers who prefer Cuban cigars over Non cubans. That have been to Cuba, get behind the scenes access, are on private Cuban cigar only forums. And have shared there knowledge first hand of what they have learned on each trip.
Why private forums?
To avoid absolute bullshit like what this thread has created. J C this thread is out of control!
The absolute irony of this thread is when a Canadian(who seems to have never been to Cuba) is arguing with a US cigar smoker. (Who not only has been to Cuba, some of the worlds premier Cuban tobacconists in other countries and even factories in Nicaragua to balance it all out) and is telling him his first hand knowledge seems skewed...... W T F?
And as soon as Brandon posted who this blog was originally from. I knew then I didn't even need to open it. Btw anyone who wants to learn why Cuba uses soy and other beans for crop planting during the off season. Read these three books. (Or really any question that needs to be debunked by this idiot.)

 

[AlohaStyle]

I am not offended at all. I couldn't care less about the whole thing. I am just trying to state my opinion without people understanding it wrong.


My perspective is different to one coming from an embargo state: we are not isolated from Cuba and CCs are seen as 'the cigar to buy' mainly out of habit and the fact we don't have much in the sense of boutique brands.

If you were just stating your opinion and talking about your guess on how Cuba rolls cigars there wouldn't be an issue... go ahead and discuss it. But you are coming across and acting like what you are saying is gospel and how's it done. You are CAPITALIZING your words as if you know for a fact what you are saying. But in fact you clearly do not since you don't think Cuba rolls their cigars based off of blends.

And what the heck does it matter where you live? I know plenty of people that do not live in the US that would think your OPINION is just as whack as I think it is.

 

[herfdog]

If you were just stating your opinion and talking about your guess on how Cuba rolls cigars there wouldn't be an issue... go ahead and discuss it. But you are coming across and acting like what you are saying is gospel and how's it done. You are CAPITALIZING your words as if you know for a fact what you are saying. But in fact you clearly do not since you don't think Cuba rolls their cigars based off of blends.

And what the heck does it matter where you live? I know plenty of people that do not live in the US that would think your OPINION is just as whack as I think it is.

 

[Mikenice81]

I am not offended at all. I couldn't care less about the whole thing. I am just trying to state my opinion without people understanding it wrong.

Which seems to be harder on this one topic, for whatever reason.

My perspective is different to one coming from an embargo state: we are not isolated from Cuba and CCs are seen as 'the cigar to buy' mainly out of habit and the fact we don't have much in the sense of boutique brands.

But english isn't my main language, so... theres that.

I think everybody is talking around each other and confusing points.

Are the rollers the blenders, no.
Are there blenders in Cuba, yes.
Even figuring out something as simple sounding as, 25% of priming one, 15% of priming two, and 60% of priming three is technically blending. If they didn't have people doing that their wouldn't be new serie and lines like the Montecristo Open series in 2009.

So, blending isn't as complicated as it is for a Dominican company because there is less choice, still there is blending. They might not have the luxury of choosing from tobacco on five or six different continents, but they have a number of fields, primings, and regions within cuba. So, somebody is coming up with the blends so that the rollers know how much of each leaf to put into each cigar. It isn't given as much attention in large part because so many of the blends are decades old. Another reason is that the Cuban government basically thinks of it as a state secret. Cigars are one of their biggest revenue generating exports and a symbol of cultural pride. To talk too much about the specifics would ruin the mystique and chance ruining any advantage they have with their blends. Which could harm their revenues and their pride.

Plus let's be honest. Cigar blenders and manufacturers tend to be tight lipped about everything. They might tell you that their wrapper is a Connecticut broadleaf maduro, but they aren't telling you which field it came from or which priming, usually. Besides Caldwell is anybody giving the percentages of the type of tobacco used? The cigar industry as a whole is very secretive.

On the flipside, Americans talk about blending so much because we view it as an art form. We appreciate people that brew beer in new and interesting ways, we make celebrities out of chefs, we make architects into cultural heroes, custom car creators like Chip Foose and Boyd Coddington become famous for their creations. We enjoy watching people with imagination come up with new things and blend things in ways we wouldn't think of. So, the idea that blending isn't as much a topic of conversation outside of America is completely understandable. That doesn't mean it wasn't going on. It just means that one culture paid less attention than the other.

 

[Craig Mac]

No offense, but not really seeing how this thread is "bullshit" or "out of control", this is still an open discussion cigar forum right? The topic at hand is some bold and hard to believe comments made by a guy on blog. To be honest, I have enjoyed reading this more than the multiple MAW/Bombing threads.

Posts like Mikenice81's above mine are exactly what I had hoped the discussion would include.

 

[Cigary43]

No offense, but not really seeing how this thread is "bullshit" or "out of control", this is still an open discussion cigar forum right? The topic at hand is some bold and hard to believe comments made by a guy on blog. To be honest, I have enjoyed reading this more than the multiple MAW/Bombing threads.

Posts like Mikenice81's above mine are exactly what I had hoped the discussion would include.

Yep. This is what adult conversations look like when it's done with candor and respect instead of getting all defensive as if others own tobacco plantations and want to tell everybody else what to smoke or how the business is actually run.

 

[Sirspanksalot]

Well this turned out to be very entertaining.

 

[Jfire]

Yep. This is what adult conversations look like when it's done with candor and respect instead of getting all defensive as if others own tobacco plantations and want to tell everybody else what to smoke or how the business is actually run.

Yes Gary. Adult conversations have been had here for 10 years now. Guys with knowledge use to come in with all they had and teach others. Newer guys generally listened and later on passed down all this info. The last couple years here guys just like to speculate info and think their reasoning is sound. It's a flawed way imo and why this board is not what it used to be. That guy from two guys is a pompous asshole. And Mac I question your reasoning for posting that link in the first place. Tootsie roll anyone???