Cuba buying Tobacco from elsewhere?

[smokinghole]

Adam. From a guy that fell in love with Petr and Pepin just a few years ago, I can tell you I no longer think Tobacco is just Tobacco. Do you really think many of the well versed gents here smoke CCs because of there "mystic allure"? Maybe like me they're following what there tastes are telling them is currently suiting there palates. I still love MANY Ncs. I just can't tolerate the strength daily (some 2x a day) that many fresh NCs have. It has nothing to do with a "look at what I got" or omg "forbidden fruit". Are they're stronger CCs? Yes but even the strength they carry I associate with med- full NCs. Also try smoking a very strong NC and seeing if your palate is ready for another one a hour or two later. For me I just can't do it. So I guess I would care because if these rumors are true, I like Ryan would think it's the manufactures responsibility to be honest with there consumer. Even so if those strength levels change to the point of being current NC levels. Or I get that "ruff" palate taste on the next few years of Habanos releases. I guess I'll gave to once again reevaluate my smoking needs.
Justin.

I'm not saying all people smoke just for the mystic allure. I'm saying that some do that's all. If you would tell me otherwise you'd be lying. I know you and some others enjoy them enough to order and risk fines and all that happy shit. I appreciate them as smokes in their own right, but look at them as any other cigar available. I like some and I don't like some. If a CC has NC tobacco in it I could care less personally. I am not a die had that thinks a puro is the only way to roll.

For a beer analogy it's akin to the reinheitsgebot. That purity law that all of Germany adopted from Bavaria forced cultural and traditional beer styles to go extinct because the law limited creativity. The purity law is like a puro, if you COULD blend in tobacco to make a better cigar, then why not?

 

[Jfire]

I'm not saying all people smoke just for the mystic allure. I'm saying that some do that's all. If you would tell me otherwise you'd be lying. I know you and some others enjoy them enough to order and risk fines and all that happy shit. I appreciate them as smokes in their own right, but look at them as any other cigar available. I like some and I don't like some. If a CC has NC tobacco in it I could care less personally. I am not a die had that thinks a puro is the only way to roll.

For a beer analogy it's akin to the reinheitsgebot. That purity law that all of Germany adopted from Bavaria forced cultural and traditional beer styles to go extinct because the law limited creativity. The purity law is like a puro, if you COULD blend in tobacco to make a better cigar, then why not?

That purity law still exist..... Just about all NCs are using 1st generation C strain seeds.

 

[Jfire]

A light went off. With all of our brothers contacts in Cuba. Just have him ask around this week!!!!! I'm sure they won't mind!?!??? ( sarcasim of course A!)

 

[smokemifugotem]

L "excuse me hamlet...but can you point me in the direction of your latest shipment of nica tobacco so I can take a picture? Could you also hold up the shipping manifest? "

And just to clarify not saying hamlet uses nc...just the only roller I know of

 

[KPP]

I am not gunna lie...more interested in thought process and why each person thinks they way they do about this topic and enjoy the back and forth. But I'm not gunna lie...chaps my ass when people post up 1 line statements or smilies poking fun or downplaying a conversation. Just read first few posts and move along. Just my .02

I concur...

And if you aren't willing to elaborate on a borrowed opinion...just move on. I hate unoriginal bastards. I've +1'd my fair share of posts, but I try to add to that opinion just to contribute a little something extra and substantiate WHY I agreed w/ something.

Adam. From a guy that fell in love with Petr and Pepin just a few years ago, I can tell you I no longer think Tobacco is just Tobacco. Do you really think many of the well versed gents here smoke CCs because of there "mystic allure"? Maybe like me they're following what there tastes are telling them is currently suiting there palates. I still love MANY Ncs. I just can't tolerate the strength daily (some 2x a day) that many fresh NCs have. It has nothing to do with a "look at what I got" or omg "forbidden fruit". Are they're stronger CCs? Yes but even the strength they carry I associate with med- full NCs. Also try smoking a very strong NC and seeing if your palate is ready for another one a hour or two later. For me I just can't do it. So I guess I would care because if these rumors are true, I like Ryan would think it's the manufactures responsibility to be honest with there consumer. Even so if those strength levels change to the point of being current NC levels. Or I get that "ruff" palate taste on the next few years of Habanos releases. I guess I'll gave to once again reevaluate my smoking needs.

And I agree with this. There's a difference in profile....clearly. Not saying one's better than the other...nor is Justin.....but for my palate at least, and how often I smoke...I like to wake up not feeling like I had 3-4 cigars....which heavy NCs do to me. I don't get that w/ cubans. Simple as that. Not all cubans are good, I'll concede that for sure.

I also agree, if it's good and I like it, it doesn't matter.....but I do like to know what goes into the final product....and also prefer not to be sold a line of BS.

 

[amsgpwarrior]

I believe Ecuadorian tobacco is the closest thing in flavor profile to Cuban tobacco. Could this be why Robaina is there growing tobacco? How many of us could tell if they used Ecuadorian filler in a CC?,......I bet hardly anyone. Just my thoughts,.....

 

[njstone]

I have no doubt that Cuban manufacturers sometimes buy non-Cuban tobacco, just as I have no doubt that the Pepins sometimes buy Cuban tobacco. That's the business--you have to see what others are doing, and find out if there are any new methods, new hybrids, etc. etc.

For years I've heard that some NC manufacturers actually use some Cuban tobacco. I very strongly doubt this is true, and would really only be feasible in LEs because you couldn't guarantee you'd be able to smuggle out the same tobacco year after year. But if this turned out to be true, it wouldn't bother me.

Likewise, we've all heard that Cubans are using NC tobacco. I think that the cost-prohibitive nature of this is likely the strongest mark against, but I personally don't think that makes it impossible.

The line that "Cuba can't even feed it's own people" could be used for anything that government does that's dumb, and yet they still do mostly dumb things! Commies are idiots, and as such cannot be trusted to do what's in their own best-interest.

I've never heard anyone say that Cuba can't grow enough tobacco, or that they can't grow awesome tobacco. It's the curing/manufacturing/production side that some people think Cuba sucks at.

Personally, I think it's more likely that Cuba SELLS tobacco for quick cash than that they BUY Nica tobacco to make better cigars. I honestly don't think HSA really cares much about making good cigars, they just want to make some short-term cash.

 

[smokinghole]

That purity law still exist..... Just about all NCs are using 1st generation C strain seeds.

The practice of the purity law still exists, but the enforcement of it as a rule of law does not exist.

I know most NCs are grown with CC seeds. Its okay though you like them and I do too. I just won't sit here and defend that they're not using other nations tobaccos. Evidence can prove something happens but a lack of evidence doesn't prove anything. That's the predicament of searching for bigfoot lol. So you and everyone else could argue till blue in the face but there's no way for your side of the argument to be definitely "won". That's just how this works.

 

[SSimp]

Personally, I think it's more likely that Cuba SELLS tobacco for quick cash than that they BUY Nica tobacco to make better cigars. I honestly don't think HSA really cares much about making good cigars, they just want to make some short-term cash.

I think this is the winner. In this scenario, Cuba wins and whoever buys the tobacco from Cuba wins. This scenario in reverse simply doesn't work. Why would Cuba want to "water down" their image?

 

[njstone]

I think this is the winner. In this scenario, Cuba wins and whoever buys the tobacco from Cuba wins. This scenario in reverse simply doesn't work. Why would Cuba want to "water down" their image?

well, their image sucks right now (as do sales). So I'm honestly not sure they even care about that. To me, it's more about the money--why pay for Nica tobacco when you have your own.

 

[smokinghole]

I don't know if this stands internationally but would CC tobacco command more of a premium when compared to NC tobacco? If so then it would be an incentive to sell CC tobacco and buy Nic or whatever. That way they make dough on selling their tobacco, then roll with a lower price point tobacco and charge like its made with CC tobacco.

 

[njstone]

I don't know if this stands internationally but would CC tobacco command more of a premium when compared to NC tobacco? If so then it would be an incentive to sell CC tobacco and buy Nic or whatever. That way they make dough on selling their tobacco, then roll with a lower price point tobacco and charge like its made with CC tobacco.

The logic follows. But as much as I think it's possible that the Cubans do sell tobacco out the back door, I don't know if it would be to the kinds of quantity you're talking about. I mean, to be lucrative they'd have to buy/sell a ton of tobacco in order to actually put them in Habanos (they make a lot of cigars there), and I think that much leaf going back and forth would get noticed. I think it's more likely that if HSA sells stuff, they sell lower-quality stuff. But hey, what do I know, lol, this is all total speculation.

Then of course there are all custom-made Cuban cigars. Some of these are sanctioned by HSA, most are not as far as I understand. They get their tobacco from somewhere (presumably on the island). I think that it's probably from private farms. If NC manufacturers are occasionally using Cuban tobacco, I'm sure it's sourced from similar back-door farms.

 

[smokemifugotem]

I don't know if this stands internationally but would CC tobacco command more of a premium when compared to NC tobacco? If so then it would be an incentive to sell CC tobacco and buy Nic or whatever. That way they make dough on selling their tobacco, then roll with a lower price point tobacco and charge like its made with CC tobacco.

Interesting thought from this...could also be a trade scenario...so takes out the whole money aspect other than terrifs...and both parties would benifit from a trade...just sayin.

 

[iergeni]

If NC manufacturers are occasionally using Cuban tobacco, I'm sure it's sourced from similar back-door farms.

Not neccessarily. From what I remember reading in a cigar aficionado interview, altadis owns some canary island based brands and supplies them with cuban tobacco over the counter, so to speak. Also, habanos sells tobacco for production of cigarettes and small cigars. There's also a brand of cigars, cvj, which, afaik, incorporates some legally obtained cuban tobacco in their product.

We are a cigar company based in Geneva Switzerland trading 5 cigar sizes. Our cigars are long filler totally hand made. They are composed of Cuban (Remedios), Brazilian (Mata Fina) leaves the cape and under cape are from East of Besuki in Indonesia. The result of this assemblage is an excellent flavoured cigar. Our cigars are:

Churchill 7 X 50
Corona Gorda 6 X 50
Robusto 5 X 50
Short Corona 4 3/4 X 38
Torito 3 1/3 X 60

 

[AlohaStyle]

L "excuse me hamlet...but can you point me in the direction of your latest shipment of nica tobacco so I can take a picture? Could you also hold up the shipping manifest? "

And just to clarify not saying hamlet uses nc...just the only roller I know of

Last September, I flat out asked Hamlet if he has ever, or would like to use other country's tobacco mixed with cuban tobacco and he just laughed and asked why he would want to. He said he thinks cuban tobacco is the best by far and could care less about mixing... he definitely seemed genuine about that answer! LOL

 

[AlohaStyle]

Who all has tried the new Ramon Allones Allones Extra 2011 EL? When I took my first puff, I literally coughed and thought whoa, this tastes like it has some Nica kick!?! I haven't tried another since so I'm really curious to try it after it's had some humi time, but I did think it was much stronger than any normal cuban cigar.

 

[iergeni]

Anyway, it's not like these things aren't traceable. The Canadians have developed a method of identifying cuban tobacco by looking at the chemical composition (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11312824), so if there is NC tobaco in CCs, science should be able to spot it.

Personally, I think that HSA is also aware of this and of the fact that its greatest asset is the trademark of a Cuban Cigar. They can do anything they want quality-wise and still make a killing, but once the word gets out they're not using cuban tobacco anymore, it's game over, imho.

On the other hand, though, smoking equals to clubbing baby seals in most of the developed world, so an extensive study to verify the true origin of tobacco in cigars is not very likely to get any sort of funding.

 

[aquarich]

Cuba has been slowly DECREASING production. Why? So that it can import at a higher cost???? That's what I would do if I were broke!!!!! Add to that CC vendors who state they have seen wharehouses stocked with cured tobacco. It's my guess why CCs are MUCH more approachable then even a few years ago..... Also guys I'm think Habanos once again had their worse year in sales in 2011 in decades..... Again!

Wrong!!!!!!!! Cuban cigar sales rose 9% in 2011. This info came out yesterday and the increase comes from sales in Western Europe. :boxing: :stickbeat

 

[smokemifugotem]

Wrong!!!!!!!! Cuban cigar sales rose 9% in 2011. This info came out yesterday and the increase comes from sales in Western Europe. :boxing: :stickbeat

just laughed out loud:grin:

 

[Jfire]

Wrong!!!!!!!! Cuban cigar sales rose 9% in 2011. This info came out yesterday and the increase comes from sales in Western Europe. :boxing: :stickbeat

You can produce less....... And make more sales!!!! I know thats a shocker...... REs, ELs, CGRs, Jar Releases, Behikes. But yeah they have been slowly decreasing tobacco production for the last several years.
July 2010:
"Cuba decreases production 14% due to a 8% decrease in sales."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10512804
This quote is from 09......
While the figures are up, they are still well below 2008 when Cuba produced more than 100 million cigars for export and Pinar del Rio's tobacco harvest totalled 26 million leaves.
Habanos sales had been slowly declining for several years. While a 9% increase this year is good. It does not erase the last 3-4 years of loss. Especially a 8% loss in one year alone which was just in 2010.