How many do you carry?
- Thread starter Sancho Panza
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Carrying in WV while intoxicated would definitely get you revoked and to me it's a no-brainer that alcohol and guns is a bad idea anywhere. There is no law against carrying concealed in a bar though, which I like since I don't drink anyway.
I don't like VA's bar/restaurant carry policy though. You can carry in a bar/restaurant but it must be open. To me that just invites trouble and needlessly alarms some patrons. I just don't carry when I go to a VA establishment that serves alcohol.
I don't like VA's bar/restaurant carry policy though. You can carry in a bar/restaurant but it must be open. To me that just invites trouble and needlessly alarms some patrons. I just don't carry when I go to a VA establishment that serves alcohol.
OK, so my story that I mentioned above. I'm not sure this is TOTALLY on topic, but it involves someone carrying "concealed", so should be all good, right?:grinFU:
As a preamble, let me state that I think every gun-owner has a duty to be an ambassador for the rest of us. There's enough hostility or ambivilance towards gun-owners as a group anyway, no reason to make it worse.
Sooooooooooo...
The wife and I are out at an upscale chinese restaurant for lunch. We are sitting at a table one table away from the corner booth. I'm facing the booth and the wife has her back to it. Said booth is occupied by 4-5 guys, all in civies, having lunch. (based on haircuts and such it is possible they were off-duty police or plain-clothes police, but no way of knowing).
About halfway through lunch, as my eyes are wandering around the restaurant, as they tend to do, I glance in the direction of this booth and my eyes are drawn right to the hip of the guy sitting at the opening of the booth. Low and behold there's the majority of the top of his pistol sticking out, no longer covered by his shirt. I mention it to my wife, look around (the place is kind of empty) and decide to give it a few minutes figuring he'll figure it out. Well, 10 minutes or so go by and there's that pistol, still peaking out at me, so I look around again to make sure no one is close enough to over hear, lean out from the table and give the guy a heads up that his pistol is flashing.
He looks at me, looks down...covers the pistol, looks back at me and turns back to the table...with a smirk on his face. WTF? Oh well, no biggie, maybe I'm just imagining things and so what if the guy doesn't say anything, maybe he's embarressed about the whole thing. Well, a couple of minutes go by and the wife tells me that no, he doesn't seem to embarrassed from what she can hear, in fact, the whole table is sniggering and laughing about the idiot at the next table!
Oh well, try and do a good deed...
At any rate, the point being, at least I wasn't someone against folks carrying, or even ambivilent to the idea. The above response to someone like that (hell, to anyone really) does nothing but hurt your cause.
As a preamble, let me state that I think every gun-owner has a duty to be an ambassador for the rest of us. There's enough hostility or ambivilance towards gun-owners as a group anyway, no reason to make it worse.
Sooooooooooo...
The wife and I are out at an upscale chinese restaurant for lunch. We are sitting at a table one table away from the corner booth. I'm facing the booth and the wife has her back to it. Said booth is occupied by 4-5 guys, all in civies, having lunch. (based on haircuts and such it is possible they were off-duty police or plain-clothes police, but no way of knowing).
About halfway through lunch, as my eyes are wandering around the restaurant, as they tend to do, I glance in the direction of this booth and my eyes are drawn right to the hip of the guy sitting at the opening of the booth. Low and behold there's the majority of the top of his pistol sticking out, no longer covered by his shirt. I mention it to my wife, look around (the place is kind of empty) and decide to give it a few minutes figuring he'll figure it out. Well, 10 minutes or so go by and there's that pistol, still peaking out at me, so I look around again to make sure no one is close enough to over hear, lean out from the table and give the guy a heads up that his pistol is flashing.
He looks at me, looks down...covers the pistol, looks back at me and turns back to the table...with a smirk on his face. WTF? Oh well, no biggie, maybe I'm just imagining things and so what if the guy doesn't say anything, maybe he's embarressed about the whole thing. Well, a couple of minutes go by and the wife tells me that no, he doesn't seem to embarrassed from what she can hear, in fact, the whole table is sniggering and laughing about the idiot at the next table!
Oh well, try and do a good deed...
At any rate, the point being, at least I wasn't someone against folks carrying, or even ambivilent to the idea. The above response to someone like that (hell, to anyone really) does nothing but hurt your cause.
Yes, this policy is really messed up. You can open carry in resaurants but you cannot under any circumstances carry concealed. There has been a lot of press about this in Northern VA in the past few months....people got scared and called the police. I read transcrips of the 911 call and followed the entire thing (via e-mail updates) of people that were involved.windowrx said:
Brian, if you want to get updates on what is going on in VA go to vcdl.org and signup for the updates. VCDL is trying to get the restaurant ban changed so permit holders can carry concealed if not drinking alcohol. This may sound crazy to some people (carrying in a place that servers alcohol), but I HATE leaving my weapon in the car...it may get stolen and its a pain in the ass to take off and put on my IWB holster (I carry small of the back)
Wow, that's interesting! You have to carry OPEN in a bar/restaurant??? I agree, that makes little sense. Not to mention, depending on the patrons, is probably just asking for an unpleasant experience (weird looks, staring, snide comments, etc.).
Alrighty then. I said there was something I've been wanting to say, so here it is.
First I also want to comment on what a great thread this has been and how ubelievably civil it has been (considering the volatility of the subject matter). So, though I don't want to do anything to change that, I think the following needs to be addressed. And honestly, I think we are all intelligent and cool-headed enough to do so without trashing the thread. Please take what I'm about to bring up in the way it is meant, as a way to further the understanding between two groups with differing opinions. It is not a slam, nor is it an accusation.
Ok, now that all the disclaimers are out of the way! :wink:
Earlier in the thread the following was posted by Fuente:
What I'm trying to understand is this: what about carrying a gun makes any of us someone not to be trusted around you or your family? What "position" are you trying to avoid?
Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you come to Tampa and happen to be in my neighborhood. I don't carry, but I own firearms and always have a loaded pistol in the house. Would this knowledge affect whether or not you would accept an invitation to my Florida room for a smoke and a drink? And if so why?
Please, please, PLEASE understand that I am asking these questions with the sincere wish to understand a differing viewpoint, not to put anyone on the spot or call them out in a negative way. I simply want to help to further my knowledge of how you see me (as a gun-owner) and your knowledge of who I am.
First I also want to comment on what a great thread this has been and how ubelievably civil it has been (considering the volatility of the subject matter). So, though I don't want to do anything to change that, I think the following needs to be addressed. And honestly, I think we are all intelligent and cool-headed enough to do so without trashing the thread. Please take what I'm about to bring up in the way it is meant, as a way to further the understanding between two groups with differing opinions. It is not a slam, nor is it an accusation.
Ok, now that all the disclaimers are out of the way! :wink:
Earlier in the thread the following was posted by Fuente:
And I've seen other posts in other places that echo some of this sentiment, and even on this thread I think there are a few others who feel somewhat the same. What I would like to ask, is for those that feel this way, to really think about what the above statement, or one like it, says. Or maybe what it seems to say to those who carry, or who believe in the right to carry/right to keep and bear. And that is, that no matter who we really are, you want nothing to do with us if we carry a gun. That there is something inherintly evil/dangerous about a firearm, that if we carry one makes us inherintly evil/dangerous. In other words, it changes us from whoever we might be to someone not to be trusted. Either that, or it says that if we carry a gun that we are not to be trusted because of our decision to carry a gun.
What I'm trying to understand is this: what about carrying a gun makes any of us someone not to be trusted around you or your family? What "position" are you trying to avoid?
Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you come to Tampa and happen to be in my neighborhood. I don't carry, but I own firearms and always have a loaded pistol in the house. Would this knowledge affect whether or not you would accept an invitation to my Florida room for a smoke and a drink? And if so why?
Please, please, PLEASE understand that I am asking these questions with the sincere wish to understand a differing viewpoint, not to put anyone on the spot or call them out in a negative way. I simply want to help to further my knowledge of how you see me (as a gun-owner) and your knowledge of who I am.
I'm not much of a gun person myself, but that doesn't mean i don't believe others should own them.Jwrussell said:
Here's one this point of view on this for arguments sake ...
As a child, think of all the lurking and searching you did around the house. Think of the BB gun you found, the cigarettes, the alcohol.... You had to try them. I think most people are afraid if children found this gun, only an accident can happen. This may sound like an over paranoid point of view, but these things do happen.
Or maybe its just not being knowledgable about them that brings fear. For example if the gun is at your hip and you fall is it possible it goes off? Honestly it may sound like a dumb question because i know very little about them, but this may be along the lines someone is thinking.
Another question for guys who carry.
Do you feel differently when your not carrying? Like when you forget to wear a watch and you know something is missing but you can't put your finger on it?
Has it become something you can't see yourself without daily?
Do you feel differently when your not carrying? Like when you forget to wear a watch and you know something is missing but you can't put your finger on it?
Has it become something you can't see yourself without daily?
I think this is an education issue. In my family we always had guns in the house and always had access to them. There was no mystery or taboo about them. We were taught what they were, what they could do and how to be safe with them. As young as 9 years old I was allowed to take a .22 and a box of ammo to the farm dump and plink bottles all by myself if I wanted to.Ashy said:
We live in a different world now. I keep my guns in a safe and wouldn't let a child that young go shooting alone. But I would take them shooting and teach them the safety that I learned early on. I don't want to turn this into a social commentary but this is among the things I see as problems with our society today. We no longer teach our children common sense and responsibility and instead blame anything that happens on the gun, the firecracker, the television show, the video, the music, the car, etc.
Also, JWRussell, your post about who anti gun people think we are is well put and right on. I've been wondering that myself. As I mentioned I'm a pretty upstanding citizen, I don't drink, don't do drugs, I work hard, pay my taxes, volunteer in my community, abide by more laws than most people I know (I don't even like to speed), I'm a good neighbor and help anyone I can. I've been through state and federal background checks and consider firearm safety to be the first priority for any gun owner.
Why would someone be afraid to be around me?
Ashy said:
Ashy, I never leave the gun loaded or accessible if there are young children around. I have no idea, honestly, how I'd handle it if I had my own children, but I can say it would start with what 1F1Fan said. Early teaching on firearms safety. No mystique around it, just flat out this is what this is and this is what it can do. The more you understand something, the less there is to fear about it.
As to your other question about falling...the answer is pretty much no. Most firearms have safeties to keep them from being fired. Most revolvers don't, but I don't know anyone that carries a double action revolver cocked. A Colt 1911 with the hammer cocked and the safety off might be a possibility, but honestly something would have to be wrong with the gun (i.e. something loose, etc., IMHO) for something like that to happen. Firearms technology nowadays has made it just about impossible for a firearm to go off unless you actually pull the trigger.
A fire cracker, a tv show, music etc... aren't deadly weapons, is the problem. You can teach all you want, and i do agree with you that teaching begins in the home, but a gun is final. Kids are kids, they make mistakes not matter how well they are taught. A mistake with a gun could be much larger than expirementing with weed (or pine needles as Wasch refers to it).windowrx said:
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
Even though someone has a permit to carry a wepaon in public, concealed or not, it still comes across as forgeign to me.
I don't associate the gun or the person with potential wrong doing nor do I think of them as a bad person socially.
Throughout the 18 hours or so of this discussion I have come to realize that the uneasy feeling is directly realated to my experience with firearms.
Even though I was in the Army and was trained to shoot to kill the enemy, my first thoughts when I see or talk about firearms are hunting and recreation, not self defense. That is why it seems so foreign to me that someone would carry a handgun on their person in public places like restaurants, grocery stores, or the mall. It just doesn't fall into either of my previously mentioned 'perceived' uses for forearms.
I do agree, it is everyones right to carry and bear arms but I also feel that it is a priveledge to exercise that right, or more so, a persons actions past or present should affect their ability to exercise that right.
I don't disagree with concealed cary by any means, it's the idea of doing it in public that is very strange to me because of my experience with firearms and my perceived uses for them.
I don't associate the gun or the person with potential wrong doing nor do I think of them as a bad person socially.
Throughout the 18 hours or so of this discussion I have come to realize that the uneasy feeling is directly realated to my experience with firearms.
Even though I was in the Army and was trained to shoot to kill the enemy, my first thoughts when I see or talk about firearms are hunting and recreation, not self defense. That is why it seems so foreign to me that someone would carry a handgun on their person in public places like restaurants, grocery stores, or the mall. It just doesn't fall into either of my previously mentioned 'perceived' uses for forearms.
I do agree, it is everyones right to carry and bear arms but I also feel that it is a priveledge to exercise that right, or more so, a persons actions past or present should affect their ability to exercise that right.
I don't disagree with concealed cary by any means, it's the idea of doing it in public that is very strange to me because of my experience with firearms and my perceived uses for them.
Larry, a firecracker can cause some major damage depending on the size and where it is when it goes off. Maybe not deadly, but definately permanent damage. That being said, you are correct, a firearm can cause more damage and said damage can very easily be permanent. Which is why owning a firearm is such a responsibility. But again, it comes down to personal responsibility. If a child finds a loaded weapon in their home and ends up shooting himself/a friend/whomever, the parents are responsible. In the same way they would be if the child found Dad's Buck Hunting knife/Mom's big Kitchen knife, etc., and managed to stab himself/a friend/whomever.
Same as if Jr. finds a bottle of cleaner and decides to drink it.
It all works out the same. It's not the fault of the item. Education, prevention, responsibility.
Same as if Jr. finds a bottle of cleaner and decides to drink it.
It all works out the same. It's not the fault of the item. Education, prevention, responsibility.
First, concealed carry for self defense can be easily (in my view) related to your experience in the military. It's simply self-defense on a smaller scale rather than a larger scale (Defense of the country).Wasch_24 said:
As to the bolded section, they do. There are very specific rules limiting your right to carry, heck, even own firearms. And their are plenty of rules that can get that right yanked if you abuse it or do something wrong with it. Or am I missing a point?
As to the last point, not to be picky, but where do you agree with it if not in public? :wink:
My apologies. I should have left my social commentary out of it. I didn't mean to imply that that these were deadly instruments. Although, television violence, video games and music have all been blamed on numerous occasions for teen suicide, violence and yes, even murder.Ashy said:
Wasch_24
2005 BoY
The fact of the matter is there are a large number of people that aren't responsible enough to own guns and yet they do.
Hell, there a lot of people who aren't responsible enough to own a car too (sucks that they all seem to share my commute route :hysterica ).
Hell, there a lot of people who aren't responsible enough to own a car too (sucks that they all seem to share my commute route :hysterica ).
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