How many do you carry?

[Poni]

My apologies. I should have left my social commentary out of it. I didn't mean to imply that that these were deadly instruments. Although, television violence, video games and music have all been blamed on numerous occasions for teen suicide, violence and yes, even murder.

i agree with alot of what you said. Education definitly starts in the home, to blame violence on TV etc... is ridiculos.

 

[Jwrussell]

I can't say I disagree Todd.

 

[Black Dog]

Hell, there a lot of people who aren't responsible enough to own a car too (sucks that they all seem to share my commute route :hysterica ).

That's funny Todd! And here I thought they were all on my route to work!

 

[Poni]

you guys take 287 south to work also?

 

[fuente]

Alrighty then. I said there was something I've been wanting to say, so here it is.

First I also want to comment on what a great thread this has been and how ubelievably civil it has been (considering the volatility of the subject matter). So, though I don't want to do anything to change that, I think the following needs to be addressed. And honestly, I think we are all intelligent and cool-headed enough to do so without trashing the thread. Please take what I'm about to bring up in the way it is meant, as a way to further the understanding between two groups with differing opinions. It is not a slam, nor is it an accusation.

Ok, now that all the disclaimers are out of the way! :wink:

Earlier in the thread the following was posted by Fuente:


And I've seen other posts in other places that echo some of this sentiment, and even on this thread I think there are a few others who feel somewhat the same. What I would like to ask, is for those that feel this way, to really think about what the above statement, or one like it, says. Or maybe what it seems to say to those who carry, or who believe in the right to carry/right to keep and bear. And that is, that no matter who we really are, you want nothing to do with us if we carry a gun. That there is something inherintly evil/dangerous about a firearm, that if we carry one makes us inherintly evil/dangerous. In other words, it changes us from whoever we might be to someone not to be trusted. Either that, or it says that if we carry a gun that we are not to be trusted because of our decision to carry a gun.

What I'm trying to understand is this: what about carrying a gun makes any of us someone not to be trusted around you or your family? What "position" are you trying to avoid?

Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you come to Tampa and happen to be in my neighborhood. I don't carry, but I own firearms and always have a loaded pistol in the house. Would this knowledge affect whether or not you would accept an invitation to my Florida room for a smoke and a drink? And if so why?

Please, please, PLEASE understand that I am asking these questions with the sincere wish to understand a differing viewpoint, not to put anyone on the spot or call them out in a negative way. I simply want to help to further my knowledge of how you see me (as a gun-owner) and your knowledge of who I am.

I don't have anything against anyone who carries. It is your right to do so and I respect that right. I also do not think you are any less trustworthy and I wouldn't look at YOU as a person any differently. However, if I knew that you were carrying a weapon, a weapon that could very easily and quickly kill someone, without know you, your background, mental state, training or anything else, it would make me very uncomfortable and I would not put my family anywhere near a situation like that.

Of course you could say that about a lot of things; a lot of things can cause death where people aren't necessarily trained properly. Let me put it thsi way:

I go to one of your houses for a herf. Someone brings a weapon. Why? Maybe for protection, maybe it's just habit, maybe to show it off. Ok, no problem. Now let's assume everyone brings their weapons. Here we have 50 guys with at least 50 weapons. Does a scenario like that make you feel more or less safe? Some of you will say more, but for me it would be the opposite.

For the above scenario, what if only half of these people are trained properly? What if some of them pick fights when they are drunk? What if some are not mentally stable? With a gun, it only takes one mistake to end a life; one misunderstanding.

It's great that those of you who own weapons go thru all the proper training and know exactly how to use them safely. If I knew you guys better and TRUSTED you, I probably would feel differently. But if I didn't know you from Adam and saw a weapon on your person, I'd be out of there, for the simple reason that it is so easy to get a gun in this country that many people are not qualified to own them.

It's nothing against the person, and it's as much my upbringing and my environment (raised where guns were nowhere to be found) as anything else.

It's just an uncomfortable, uneasy feeling I have around people I don't know carrying instruments of death.

BTW if you invited me to your house and I knew that your guns were locked up and away from any children, then sure, I'd be there !!!

 

[Wasch_24]

I don't have anything against anyone who carries. It is your right to do so and I respect that right. I also do not think you are any less trustworthy and I wouldn't look at YOU as a person any differently. However, if I knew that you were carrying a weapon, a weapon that could very easily and quickly kill someone, without know you, your background, mental state, training or anything else, it would make me very uncomfortable and I would not put my family anywhere near a situation like that.

Of course you could say that about a lot of things; a lot of things can cause death where people aren't necessarily trained properly. Let me put it thsi way:

I go to one of your houses for a herf. Someone brings a weapon. Why? Maybe for protection, maybe it's just habit, maybe to show it off. Ok, no problem. Now let's assume everyone brings their weapons. Here we have 50 guys with at least 50 weapons. Does a scenario like that make you feel more or less safe? Some of you will say more, but for me it would be the opposite.

For the above scenario, what if only half of these people are trained properly? What if some of them pick fights when they are drunk? What if some are not mentally stable? With a gun, it only takes one mistake to end a life; one misunderstanding.

It's great that those of you who own weapons go thru all the proper training and know exactly how to use them safely. If I knew you guys better and TRUSTED you, I probably would feel differently. But if I didn't know you from Adam and saw a weapon on your person, I'd be out of there, for the simple reason that it is so easy to get a gun in this country that many people are not qualified to own them.

It's nothing against the person, and it's as much my upbringing and my environment (raised where guns were nowhere to be found) as anything else.

It's just an uncomfortable, uneasy feeling I have around people I don't know carrying instruments of death.

BTW if you invited me to your house and I knew that your guns were locked up and away from any children, then sure, I'd be there !!!

Ecellent post. I wish I could have written it. I feel pretty much the same way.

 

[tripp]

I am not a big gun person for the reasons I stated earlier.
My best friend is an ex-air force guy that is very much into guns.
He does his own reloading, maintence everything. He is very well versed and safety consious. Hell even his daughter as a young teenager knew the smart and safe ways to handle and be around guns. He has dozens and I do not feel threatned or uneasy at his house. He has the training, the knowledge and the respect a gun deserves.
the cowboy jackass that buys the big caliber shiny gun to impress everybody scares me. There are people that try to compensate for other things such as self esteem, confidence and soforth.
The people that own many guns probably are safer than the guy who owns one.
That is just the way I see it.

 

[RiverRat]

We carry just in case!

We don't carry looking for a fight, and we don't all necassarily all live in high crime neighborhoods. You just never know what's gonna happen, and it only takes once.

I'm sure you carry a jack and a spare tire in your car? But are you expecting a flat? Of course not. Just in case....

You have insurance too, but you don't go driving around looking to get in an accident.... just in case.

The following story was posted on another board, by a member there.

My 23 year old hard-core pro-gun daughter works for the local auto dealership. she has various jobs, but part of her job is shipping various parts out UPS. Sometimes she needs to cut string and tape and she uses the small knife I gave her to carry around her neck on a chain.

It is a stainless, lock-blade knife with about a 1 & 1/2 blade with a skeltonized handle so the whole thing is small and light. (about 2 oz or less.)

I have also showed her how to use the knife if needed for a last-ditch self-defense move such as cutting a major artery so the perp bleeds out in about 5 minutes and collapses long before the 5 minutes is up.

A few young guys work with her and they noticed her using her knife and they were interested, wanted to examine it and asked her why she carried it around her neck. She told them that she uses it to cut string, tape and if needed to cut a car seat-belt if trapped in a car.

She also said she is willing to use it for self-defense.

The young guys, half laughing at her, said "Well, how many times have you needed that knife for self-defense?".

She replied something like this "The best way to answer that question is for us to go visit the local cemetery and stop by some of the graves of young women who have been kidnapped, beaten, raped and killed. There you can ask them "How many times have you needed self-defense?". Since those dead victims cannot answer, I will answer for them.

They only needed self-defense ONE time. And sadly, since at that ONE TIME they didn't have that self defense, THEY WILL NEVER NEED IT AGAIN.


Well said by a very savvy young lady.....

(RiverRat the carrier)

 

[Sancho Panza]

feel free to not come to any of the Gulf Coast herfs, NOT that you aren't welcome, even @ the Brew Pub in Mobile we can legally carry because we're not in the bar area & somewhere between 12 & 20 will be legally carrying

 

[Wasch_24]

I wonder though...
If I was being mugged at gun point there are two scenarios.

1) I don't do anything but what he tells me and couple things can happen...
...he takes my stuff and leaves
...he takes my stuff and still shoots me

2) While reaching for my wallet I pull out my concealed weapon and attempt to protect myself and one of four things can happen...
...I shoot first and am safe
...he shoots first and I am hurt/killed
...we shoot simultaneaously and both are injured/killed
...he runs from the unexpected turn of events.

Personally, I would rather try my chances on number one, that's just me.

My aunt owned a jewlery store and had a permit to keep a hand gun under the counter. One day a punk came in with a .22 handgun. She was able to reach the gun and pulled it on him. He ran because it was a huge .357. Afterwards everyone was telling her how lucky she was for having the gun but in hind site she didn't think so. She felt that it was a mistake becaue he would have likely left with some mercandise without doing anything harmful. She felt very lucky that he didn't shoot her for pulling the gun out. She sold the gun after that.

 

[Texas Cop]

I'll just jump in to touch on a couple of the previous posts here...

First off, in VA, you have to carry open in restraunts? That's pretty f-ed up...Anybody link me to the news stories/state rulings on this stuff, I'm curious..

Second, there is a 9y/o child in my household, and there firearms. 2 are loaded, pistol in the bedside safe, shotgun in the closet with a 'lifejacket' on it, and everything else is in a strong box with various types of locking devices on them..The aforementioned 9y/o has also fired ever weapon in this house (except the 12ga. and the .338 for obvious reasons), and he has been shown repeatedly the proper way to handle firearms, and knows exactly what to do should he ever come across one.

Lastly, as to being uncomfortable around persons carrying firearms...Take a look at how many Americans have been killed by motor vehicles and compare it to the number of Americans killed by firearms (I'll give you a hint, more Americans have died by motor vehicle since 1907, than have died in every armed conflict fought by America since 1776)...


Andrew

 

[Texas Cop]

Forgot to add, willfull failure to conceal while carrying will result in automatic license revocation and a misdemeanor charge..


Andrew

 

[Wasch_24]

Forgot to add, willfull failure to conceal while carrying will result in automatic license revocation and a misdemeanor charge..


Andrew

That makes perfect sense to me. If people conceal the fact then all this is moot, Mark also mentioned this earlier.


The car analogy has a flaw in my interpretation. Cars are on or near roads. Guns can be anywhere. There are certain expectations created.

 

[fuente]

Lastly, as to being uncomfortable around persons carrying firearms...Take a look at how many Americans have been killed by motor vehicles and compare it to the number of Americans killed by firearms (I'll give you a hint, more Americans have died by motor vehicle since 1907, than have died in every armed conflict fought by America since 1776)...

Not really the same thing. Consider this:

I work in an environment with some really nasty stuff. I mean really nasty biological hazards. There is one particular substance that if not handled properly and with great care is fatal to you and everyone around you; kind of like a weapon, right? As for the substance, think about that movie, "The Rock" and you'll have a pretty good indication of how dangerous this stuff is.

There are individuals who work in and around this stuff all day long. They have all the proper training and qualifications (similar to all of you who own weapons). I go into these areas at times, just passing thru to do something else, not dealing with said material whatsoever. I have had ZERO training concerning handling of this material (just like with weapons).

Now, how do you think I feel walking thru there? How would YOU feel? If you tell me that you would feel perfectly safe and comfortable, because those working with the material are trained, you'd be lying. I guarantee you that it would make you feel uncomfortable, because one mistake - one lapse of judgement could cause serious consequences to everyone around you...just like a weapon.

This is how I look at those carrying weapons. It makes me uncomfortable. It is nothing against anyone. I realize that there are a lot less death from guns then from car accidents, etc., but driving a car is a dynamic event; you have other drivers on the road, etc. It is not a fair comparison. Comparing driving deaths and airplane deaths is more of a fair comparison. Both are modes of transportation, both deal with other traffic, human error, security and safety.

 

[Wasch_24]

Dang, remind me not to trade with Fuente. :hysterica


Now there is some serious work related stress that would be going if that were me.

 

[Jwrussell]

Hmmm...couple of things. First off to Fuente: Thank you for such a well thought out, well articulated post on your side of this issue. I must say I can't agree on everything you say, but I can respect where you are coming from. For me, you would have to change the example to a public place. I would expect anyone coming into my home to have the respect to notify me they were carrying. At which point my request would be for them to feel free to bring the weapon in and leave it somewhere safe so they wouldn't have to leave it in the car. At that point you would be in my home. There are already weapons readily available if needed and with anyone coming armed there would be more. They would not need to be on anyone's person. But those are my rules in my house. In a public place it's not going to bother me if people are carrying. It would bother me if they were drinking and carrying, but I think we've covered that.
And in that situation, with my experience with those who carry, I'd be right at home with 50 armed folks. Yeah, there might be a hothead or in someother way ill-equipped to carry person there, but even so, it takes alot to draw a gun when you know the other person has the same ability. And with everyone else around things could be diffused well enough, IMHO.

Todd, it I'm sure varies from person to person, but your first option is always the best course of action. Money and "things" are easily replaced, your life isn't. The only reason I'd pull a firearm in that case is if I had reason to believe my life was in danger no matter what I did.

Last but not least, thanks for that post Andrew. It was not something I was willing to post without double checking, but it was another reason the story I posted earlier burned me so much. Unless the guy was a cop, I was in effect, saving him from a possible misdemeanor and revocation of his liscence. Not to say that it would have happened with 99% of the police officers out there, but what if he got the one who happens to believe no civilians should own firearms? Maybe in court he's able to get his liscence back and straighten things out, but why risk the hassle?

 

[Black Dog]

As for guns being a danger to everyone around them, I would like to add this. Guns do not fire all by themselves. A properly concealed firearm is completely unnoticeable to the untrained eye, and is safely and securely tucked into a holster that encompasses the trigger/trigger guard assembly. In order for the gun to fire it must be removed from the holster and someone must place their finger or other object inside the trigger guard and pull the trigger. Anyone with any kind of training (which most permit holders must have) is aware that you do not put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot something. Permit holders as a group are generally stable people as is evidenced by the extremely small number of licenses that are revoked for any reason. This perceived danger is just not happening out there. When was the last time you saw a headline that a permit holder accidentally killed or injured anyone? Believe me, the news media would be all over it.

 

[Texas Cop]

No hunting on Sundays? wtf? ;-) Thanks for the link Mark, I'll probably browse through tonite after work....

I grew up in a violently anti-gun household...No bb-guns, no pellet guns, nothing...In fact, my mother still lectures me about owning firearms...I shot my first gun in the Boy Scouts when I was in 2nd grade, and my firearms education was continuted by my uncles, one an avid hunter, the other an Air Force vet. I purchased my first firearm at 20, and it has been a downhill slide ever since, I actually have to think long and hard before buying a box of cigars, because the new/latest revolver/auto/shotgun whatever is coming out next month.

I have been trained by military CQB instructors, LE instructors, civilian concealed carry instructors, civilian competition shooters, etc. IMO there is no such thing as too much training/instruction, and I will continute to take every class that is offered and that fits into my schedule. On a side note here, I'm looking for a good carbine/perimeter rifle course, but don't want to take the trip up to Thunder Ranch, any ideas guys?


Andrew

 

[Sancho Panza]

some States, Louisiana being one of the require permission of the home owner before entering with a loaded weapon

 

[fuente]

1.) Fuente - I can totally understand being uncomfortable around others with guns. You would be a fool not to. If I know someone has one, I keep a sharp eye on them - whether I am carrying or not. It's a natural instinct to stay out of harms way and always trust your gut.

With that said, I would be curious to know if you are comfortable handling a gun yourself?

I've never handled a gun. Maybe a BB gun when I was a kind, but that's it.